LF Portrait Bokeh Okeh Dokeh! 15" Bausch & Lomb Projection Petzval f4.5

jonw · Oct 20, 2005

As always, you do extremely fine work. Beautiful photographs! Did you do all of them with your Magic Lantern? If not, which other lens were you using? In any case, you are truly talented and I would relish the opportunity to attend a LF seminar you conduct. Have you given it any thought about putting together such a field seminar? I definitely would travel down from Boise to learn from the "Master."

jimgalli · Oct 20, 2005

MattCarey said:
Jim,

those are really, really nice. I have a preference for portraits in general, and your portraits in specific.

When will we see something from the great East Coast Boondoggle (tm)?

Matt

Didn't get much done on the east coast. A few snaps of the grandbabie with the unmentionable camera and some interiors of Wanamakers Grand Court organ with the Autocord.

John Kasaian said:
I feel for the guy who built that fence meanderin' between those hills!

It's one of those "helluva place to lose a cow" places

Wayne R. Scott · Oct 20, 2005

Jim,

I bought a Wollensak No. 3 Vitax Portrait lens f3.8 in a No. 5 Studio shutter. What do I have here? Will it cover 8x10? Seems to be a little larger in size and weight than my B&L 88mm and Kodak 100mm WF Ektar.

Wayne

smieglitz · Oct 20, 2005

Wayne R. Scott said:
Jim,

I bought a Wollensak No. 3 Vitax Portrait lens f3.8 in a No. 5 Studio shutter. What do I have here? Will it cover 8x10? Seems to be a little larger in size and weight than my B&L 88mm and Kodak 100mm WF Ektar.

Wayne

Wayne,

Here's some info from an online 1919 Wollensak catalog:

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/wollensakcata/vitax.html

It's a modified Petzval design with an adjustment knob to alter the spacing of the rear elements and give varying degrees of softness. The #3 Vitax is a 10" lens designed more for smaller formats like 4x5 or maybe 5x7 IIRC. The 16" #5 Vitax was recommended for 8x10.

Joe

jimgalli · Oct 20, 2005

Joe, there was an earlier series where a no. 1 is 10", no. 2 is 13" and no. 3 is 16". All of mine follow that pattern and they're listed that way in the 1912-13 catalog. If that's the #3 you have Wayne it'll easily cover 8X10 and would produce very similar results to the portraits I linked to on this page. It takes a pretty stout front standard to hold one up though. My #3 Vitax lives on the front of a 10A Studio camera.

Wayne R. Scott · Oct 20, 2005

Thanks Joe.

This seems like a very large lens for 4x5 format. Physically large I mean. It is indeed a 10" lens. How is the No 5 shutter supposed to work? Is it a "bulb" type? Open or closed only choices?

Wayne

jimgalli · Oct 20, 2005

Wayne, if it's in the big #5 studio shutter, it's the biggest 16" Vitax. The studio shutters were pneumatic. With a bulb and hose, if it's clean and happy, you can cycle those blades open and closed in about 1/4 - 1/5 second. Making the gun powder go off while the shutter is open is the trick.

Wayne R. Scott · Oct 20, 2005

Jim,

I see that you replied while I was typing. I am confused now. This lens is very large, overall length is 10", diameter is 4 5/8". Serial number is 39XX. How do I tell which it is? 10" or 16" no 3 Vitax?

I can see where it would need a very stout front standard.

Wayne

Wayne R. Scott · Oct 20, 2005

Thanks Jim.

I see you answered my question before I asked it.

Wayne

Dave Wooten · Oct 20, 2005

Wayne,

Turn off the lights in the house and open the door and point the lens towards a street light....focus a paper, 8 1/2 or 11" behind it....it will focus the image at its focal length 10" or 16" or whatever.....you will also see coverage....same can be done outside in the dark and turn your house window lights on etc.

Wayne R. Scott · Oct 20, 2005

Thanks Dave,

That may work, but the nearest street light is 14 miles away.

Wayne

smieglitz · Oct 21, 2005

jimgalli said:
Joe, there was an earlier series where a no. 1 is 10", no. 2 is 13" and no. 3 is 16". All of mine follow that pattern and they're listed that way in the 1912-13 catalog...

How right you are Jim. From the earlier catalog:

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/wollensakcate/p14.html

It looks to me like Wollensak's Royal Portrait F:3.8 became the Vitax series and the Series A F:5 Portrait lenses became the Vesta series around 1912.

Now I'm curious about this because I have a couple Seroco Portrait Series II F:5 lenses which I believe to be rebranded (SEars, ROebuck & COmpany) Wollensak Vesta lenses. One is an F:5 12" equivalent focus for 6.5"x 8.5" and the other an F:5 10" equivalent focus for 5" x 7" format. They appear to be F:5 Petzvals as far as I can tell by reading the Wollensak catalog descriptions and looking at the reflections of the Seroco lenses in hand.

Do you have any info on the Serocos? What do you think?

I also just dug out a Bausch & Lomb projection lens (no stops or slots) that appears to be about a 24" lens. I'll have to put that one on a camera and see what it does.

Any info appreciated.

Joe

jimgalli · Oct 21, 2005

Joe, The SeRoCo was made by Bausch & Lomb. They also had an f5 series of portrait lenses in direct competition to Wooly. I have 1 that says Eastman Kodak (big f4), one that says Hyatt (smaller f5), and previously had one that said SeRoCo (sold here on APUG) that are all identical and I don't have, but have seen the same exact lens with the Bausch & Lomb logos. They had a big f4 series that was direct competition to the 3.8 Vitax, and also the f5 more compact series. All of these that I've seen by B&L were patent petzval and the rear groups unscrew from each other and have 4 stopping points for increasing diffusion similar to the Dallmeyer's they copied.

Also, anything I've seen that was re-branded Wollensak from the brass era will have the black band with the white writing that says Wollensak on it.

smieglitz · Oct 21, 2005

Hmmm. Perhaps both companies rebranded them for Sears. Both of mine are in Studio shutters, one of which says Wollensak on it. Both shutters have the same patent date so I believe they are both Wollensaks. Would B&L lenses ever have come supplied in Wollensak Studio shutters?

Also, I don't see any index marks for the rear element separation as with the Dallmeyers I own.

Maybe they are some other sort of lens design.

Joe

jimgalli · Oct 21, 2005

Doesn't surprise me at all that Sears would market a B&L lens with their name on it 1 year and a Wooly the next. They haven't changed a bit, that's exactly what they do today too. Except it's all made in places that are un-pronouncable by 11 year old slaves now.

tingm · Oct 22, 2005

Wow!

This is my first time in APUG forums, and I'm confronted with threads such as these.

Jim, that is amazing! I want that lens man!

laz · Oct 22, 2005

tingm said:
This is my first time in APUG forums, and I'm confronted with threads such as these. Jim, that is amazing! I want that lens man!

and you've already qualified as a member of the Galli Cult! Welcome! (to both APUG and the cult)

-Bob

laz · Oct 22, 2005

BTW, I am so proud of myself, I had a lens on my ebay watch list that Jim won yesterday!

Whiteymorange · Oct 25, 2005

OK... This thread got me all hopped up and I made a lens board for one of the old Petzval projection lenses I got recently. I'll be trying it on a Speed Graphic if I can get enough bellows- or go back to the drawing board and make another lens board for a Cambo...

Two questions, though. Since these things were projection lenses for Magic Lantern slides, mine don't seem to have much info on them about who made them or what their focal length might be. I've read the threads on measuring focal length but I wondered if there was a standard size for home projectors as there is a "standard" lens for any one format film.

Question two has to do with the much larger of the two lenses. I believe this one was a projection lens from a college lecture hall at the big "H" here in Cambridge, MA back at the turn of the last century. The thing is over 5" across at the flange and about 8" long. It was made in France and imported by a Boston dealer in Magic Lanterns who flourished about that time. What confuses me is that there is a notation, quite clear, on the bottom of the flange 10' 2" I'll go ahead and risk making a huge fool of myself by stating that I don't have any meaning for that other than 10 feet and 2 inches (10 degrees, 2 minutes?) Does this mean anything that makes sense to anyone?

I'll get to the fabrication room sometime soon and put that one on a camera, but for right now it's projects 1 through 456 first....

Maybe if I give up sleeping...

jimgalli · Oct 25, 2005

Cool. Hope you'll share what ya get. I'll venture a couple of guesses. These lenses are pretty simple. Focus on infinity and measure right to the mid point in the lens barrel. Close enough. If you decide it's a 10.5" lens and the diameter is 1.5" across the glass, divide the width into the focal length and it's an f7 right? If you focus at 15" for a head and shoulder shot, it just became an f10. No rocket science at all. No there were no normals that I know of. And I'd guess the 10' 2" was something that some user scratched on there because when he was 10' 2" away he got the image size he was after to fill his screen he was using.

Whiteymorange said:
OK... This thread got me all hopped up and I made a lens board for one of the old Petzval projection lenses I got recently. I'll be trying it on a Speed Graphic if I can get enough bellows- or go back to the drawing board and make another lens board for a Cambo...

Two questions, though. Since these things were projection lenses for Magic Lantern slides, mine don't seem to have much info on them about who made them or what their focal length might be. I've read the threads on measuring focal length but I wondered if there was a standard size for home projectors as there is a "standard" lens for any one format film.

Question two has to do with the much larger of the two lenses. I believe this one was a projection lens from a college lecture hall at the big "H" here in Cambridge, MA back at the turn of the last century. The thing is over 5" across at the flange and about 8" long. It was made in France and imported by a Boston dealer in Magic Lanterns who flourished about that time. What confuses me is that there is a notation, quite clear, on the bottom of the flange 10' 2" I'll go ahead and risk making a huge fool of myself by stating that I don't have any meaning for that other than 10 feet and 2 inches (10 degrees, 2 minutes?) Does this mean anything that makes sense to anyone?

I'll get to the fabrication room sometime soon and put that one on a camera, but for right now it's projects 1 through 456 first....

Maybe if I give up sleeping...

Whiteymorange · Oct 25, 2005

BOY! That was quick. Thanks, Jim. I wondered about the point of measurement for the focal length. As always, great advice and ( I imagine) given with a smile.

David · Oct 25, 2005

So shall we all meet at the bokeh corral for a drink?

jimgalli · Oct 25, 2005

David said:
So shall we all meet at the bokeh corral for a drink?

Drinks, then a shoot out.

eclarke · Oct 26, 2005

Shootout

jimgalli said:
Drinks, then a shoot out.

Watch out Jim, I have seen that yours misfires occasionally 8>))..Evan Clarke

laz · Oct 26, 2005

jimgalli said:
Drinks, then a shoot out.

eclarke said:
Watch out Jim, I have seen that yours misfires occasionally 8>))..Evan Clarke

And when you're both dead in the dust I'll come by and grab the lenses off your lifeless bodies! (nope, no scruples when it comes to lenses!)

LF Portrait Bokeh Okeh Dokeh! 15" Bausch & Lomb Projection Petzval f4.5

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