LF newbie needs help choosing architectural lens

[howellru]

I am just not getting into vintage LF photography and would like to start shooting architecture. However, neither my 5x7 Ansco nor my 4x5 Calumet rail camera have a wide lens. I realize shooting wide on a rail camera isn't great due to the rail entering the shots, so I'd like a suggestion on what lens might work for my Ansco.

Is there a camera to lens reference chart/site out there anyone knows of? If not, what lens would you all recommend? I'm currently considering a Schneider Kreuznach Super Angulon 90mm/f8 lens.

Thanks in advance for the assistance.

 

[removed account4]

hi

one thing you might consider doing is ( on your field camera )
push you front standard all the way back to see if you will be able
to put a wide angle lens on it. you will probably need what is called a recessed
lens board no matter what camera you use. the super angulons are nice, and should
cover your format, or at least illuminate it.
you might not want to discount a monorail camera just yet ...
i shoot architectural photographs with a rail camera all the time. rail in photographs is easily remedied ...
you move the both standards all the way to the end of the rail and you won't see it in any photographs you take.
it is simple and might actually be easier to use than the field camera you have illustrated.

largeformatphotography.info has lots of information on lenses including
coverage charts &c ...

good luck !
john

 

[jeffreyg]

You should be able to find charts online. I am far from an expert on LF although I use a field camera for landscape and still-life. I have a Toyo and their rear extension. My four lenses are 120mm, 135mm, 210 and 300 tele. As mentioned your bellows and the extent of movements required will be factors. I have an old Nikkor LF lens catalog that has a chart showing the image circles superimposed over the different film formats. According to that chart their SW90 and their W150 (stopped down to f22) should cover a 4x5 and 5x7. It does not mention camera movements.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

 

[John Koehrer]

Move both standards forward of the mounting block, not behind. Then you don't have to worry about the rail in the picture.

 

[Alan Gales]

If you are shooting architectural interiors of old buildings with existing light then you might want something faster than f/8 for easier focussing.

 

[LJH]

If you are shooting architectural interiors of old buildings with existing light then you might want something faster than f/8 for easier focussing.

+1.

At least consider the f5.6 Plasmats. The Nikkor 90mm f4.5 SW is the fastest of the modern 90mm.

Also, a good quality dark cloth will assist, as will a good quality loupe. These two items will compliment the faster lens when setting up your architectural shots.

Finally, consider getting a Torpedo Level to sure up your standards.

 

[Kevin Kehler]

I have a 5x7 Ansco and you definitely need a recessed lens board for a 90mm lens. Otherwise you can't focus at infinity since the lens is too far away from the film plane. I use my 90mm as a macro lens, since it allows for 1:3 enlargements with the amount of bellows draw I have (I could probably do more but extension factor starts to become crazy). I have a 120mm which I use for more wide angle stuff but I don't do a lot of interior architecture; 120mm is fine for most exterior. Depends on what you mean by architecture photography.

 

[winterclock]

movements will be limited with the 90mm SA on 5x7, I would suggest using the Calumet with the standards forward of the mounting block for that lens. If you want to use the 5x7 you might want to get a 120mm SA. That would get you enough movements to control perspective.

 

[Larry H-L]

The suggestion to move both standards in front of the mounting block on the monorail camera is a good one, just take care when centering and balancing the camera on a tripod. The 90mm should work fine on the 4x5, offering a bit of front rise.

The 5x7 will be a challenge with the 90; it looks like the bellows will bunch up - restricting movement - even with a recessed board. I use a deep hand-made recessed board on my 5x7, and the bellows is still iffy with a 120mm lens.

Remember though, that a standard 150mm is still slightly wide on the 5x7.

 

[bdial]

On the Calumet you can use a 90 with the front standard all the way at the front of the rail.
You'll need a recessed board to get any movement though. No need to switch the mounting block, as I recall.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Nobody seems to be addressing the real issues with architectural photography here, so I'll chime in:

First, if you plan on doing a lot of work close in with tall(er) structures and/or interiors, you are ideally going to want a lens with lots of coverage. While the 90mm SA f/8 is a good lens (I own one and use it a lot), it has significantly less coverage than the larger, faster 90mm lenses. If I were to choose a 90mm for architecture, it would the the Nikkor 90mm f/4.5, since it has the largest image circle in the group at f/22. Other good choices would be any of the f/5.6 wide designs from Fuji, Rodenstock or Schneider. The winner by far in this category, but rather expensive and large, is the SA XL f/5.6 with a 256mm image circle.

That said, I do a lot of architectural work with my 90mm SA f/8, but sometimes have to abandon or modify a shot due to coverage problems. Especially with a filter screwed on, it's pretty easy to vignette. If your requirements are purely architectural and lens size/weight is not so much of an issue, then go with a faster lens with more coverage. If, like me, architectural work is secondary and weight is an issue, then you may wish to compromise with the smaller lens.

Secondly, you will find you need movements and precision to get everything you want on to the film. Field cameras can be used for architectural work (I do it all the time), but you need to be extra careful applying movements and often need some tricks to compensate for lack of rise and/or shift. Again, if I were doing strictly architectural work, I would choose a full-featured monorail camera with plenty of movement and with a bellows (bag or universal) that allows a short-focal-length lens like a 90mm to be used with extreme movements.

That said, a recessed lensboard will help get a bit more movement out of a stiff bellows. The problem with them is that lens controls are often harder to deal with. I have a 90mm SA f/8 on a Technika recessed board and need a pencil or the end of the cable release to set aperture and open/close the viewing setting. A larger lens simply wouldn't fit on such a small board. Your boards may be bigger and a recessed one of those may accept one of the faster/larger 90mm lenses better.

Finally, a properly installed and oriented gridded ground glass is indispensable for good architectural work. Levels on the camera are important too, to get the initial set up, but the ground glass tells all. If you want parallel verticals, then the grid is your best friend. I've installed levels and gridded glass on my folding field cameras just for this purpose.

Bottom line, you'll have to asses your possibilities and maybe make some compromises. And don't let me discourage you from using your field cameras for architectural work. That is what I have done. Just be aware of what you are getting into. I need lightweight lenses and I use small folding field cameras almost exclusively. Plus, architectural work is only a part of what I do and I have a good grasp of manipulating my cameras to get a lot of effective rise and shift from them (plus the time to do that). Therefore, I use a 90mm SA f/8 in that focal length and deal with its limitations.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

 

[howellru]

Thanks for all the responses, gang. I need to chew on it and decide what I'm going to do.

As for my architectural work and my rail or Ansco cameras, I mainly want to shoot exterior's as I learn all the ins and outs of my camera's movements. And, my LF photography is strictly personal/fun work.

I've moonlighted shooting architectural work for firms in the past, but always used my Canon 5D and a rented tilt/shift lens. However, I know I would like to move up to a tech camera and digital capture back if my architectural work picks up.

For now, I want to invest in some good glass I can practice with my current cameras, not only for architecture, but also landscapes.

From all the great input I'm getting, it sounds like I might be safe with anything as large as a 120mm, but it should be faster than f/8 and Fuji, Roden's, Schneiders, and Nikon would be a good options.

How hard are recessed boards to work with (accessing lens settings) and what's involved in moving the standards on rail camera forward of the mounting block? I've never broke down the camera, but thought it was fixed in the center of the rail.

Thanks again for the tips.

Mark

 

[RalphLambrecht]

You should be able to find charts online. I am far from an expert on LF although I use a field camera for landscape and still-life. I have a Toyo and their rear extension. My four lenses are 120mm, 135mm, 210 and 300 tele. As mentioned your bellows and the extent of movements required will be factors. I have an old Nikkor LF lens catalog that has a chart showing the image circles superimposed over the different film formats. According to that chart their SW90 and their W150 (stopped down to f22) should cover a 4x5 and 5x7. It does not mention camera movements.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

the NikkorSW90 f/8or 9? works well for me!

 

[Alan Gales]

Some people are fine with recessed boards and some hate them.

It all depends upon the lens and the size of the recessed board. Lenses are shaped differently and for example a Technika board is a lot smaller than a Sinar board.

Oh, how big are your fingers?

 

[M Carter]

Recessed boards can be tough if you have giant hands or "sausage fingers"... a cable release is pretty mandatory.

Surprised nobody has mentioned a bag-bellows... for wide angle shooting, it's far easier to deal with than normal bellows, and they're usually much cheaper since they don't "accordion" fold. Back in the film days, my rental supplier would automatically place your rental wide on the recessed board of your make and include a bag bellows and release - it was just assumed to be a "wide angle package" kind of deal.

And when the standards are in front of the tripod mount - make sure you've sussed out a good way to weight the tripod. Most decent sticks have (usually) a 3/8-16 threaded hole somewhere. You can screw an eye bolt into this and use a bungee cord to attach to a sandbag. Basically, you want the sandbag hanging to the floor or just barely touching the ground. Usually comes down to bungee cords and some way to attach them at least midway up the legs and hopefully centered. Figure out a way to quickly adjust the length of the strap/cord and quickly detach the whole mess. Mid-level or floor level spreaders can often take a sandbag, too.

I only did product shooting in 4x5 and rarely needed a polarizer - I'd attach color filtration to the rear element, so vignetting wasn't an issue.

 

[GKC]

On the Ansco take the standards off the rails and reverse them, allowing you to focus using the back standard rather than the front so no rails will be in the way.