LF Newbie choosing a camera

fdonadio · Mar 19, 2015

Hello, all!

I've decided I want to get into large format photography. I use a Hasselblad for skateboarding photography, but I also snap some portraits and landscapes every now and then.

Now I want to shoot landscapes, portraits and some architecture in 4x5" format. Maybe I'll get into macro too...

I understand I need "movements" to shoot architecture, specially when I need perspective correction. So, I am considering a monorail view camera.

My questions:

1. Can I use any lens brand with any camera (as long as I have the correct lens board)? I mean, for example, can I use a Symmar with a Horseman camera?

2. I want to get one or two wide angle lenses for the architecture shots, maybe a 65mm and a 90mm. I've read that these lenses may require a recessed lens board and bag bellows. I may also need a camera that I can put both standards in front of the tripod mount, so the lens can be very close to the film. Am I correct?

3. Is it practical to change bellows (I don't think so) or lenses in the field or should I have two bodies on hand if I am to encounter radically different subjects and situations on the same day/trip?

4. I understand that, if I need extreme movements, I'd need lenses with a large image circle. Do I get any benefit from using a 5x7" or 8x10" lenses? Is this even feasible or recommended?

5. And, best for last: can you recommend a good and sturdy camera? It would be a plus if it's compact (or can be folded so I don't need a big case/backpack) and light, since it will be used in all kinds of places. But I understand sturdy and light tend to be mutually exclusive...

I have looked into some Sinar, Linhof, Horseman and Toyo models. Horseman seems to be the most sturdy. Toyo seems to be the cheapest. Sinar and Linhof are as expensive as their fame, but some models don't look that sturdy. I'm still confused...

Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Flavio

BrianShaw · Mar 19, 2015

1. Yes, with a few things to consider: some lenses are very big and heavy and might be a challenge on a lighter camera; some of the biggest old shutters may be a challenge if the lens board is small.

2. Yes. Some cameras may handle that situation better, but what you describe is what is necessary with a Cambo monorail.

3. It is practical on a "system" camera like Calumet/Cambo SR series. But convenience may be another issue. I was changing from regular bellows to bag bellows and flipped the release the wrong way... causing my GG to break. It was then that I was wishing I had a camera dedicated to short FL lenses so I could avoid such accidents in the future. (I still don't have a second camera so maybe I didn't really learn my lesson.)

4. Image circle is a function of the lens, not the format. The image circles are published and, if not, are easily verified.

5. For a question like this the answer generally is what the person writing the answer uses. So I'll indulge: Calumet/Cambo SR series is inexpensive and will do everything you want. But it isn't lightweight.

jerrybro · Mar 19, 2015

I started like most, with a Speed Graphic. Once hooked on the format I went looking for something with movements. I found a used Toyo monorail for sale with an additional short rail. I put the short rail on and never used the standard rail. It works great with 210, 150 and 90 lenses, the 90 in a recessed board.

I'm a trunk shooter, if you have visions of venturing into the great outdoors a monorail could be a pain to work with. There have been times I wish I had a smaller field camera, not a lot, but they have happened.

Alan Gales · Mar 19, 2015

Here you go, Flavio. :http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

E. von Hoegh · Mar 19, 2015

Alan Gales said:
Here you go, Flavio. :http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

yup. What he^^ said.
My zwei pfennig, get a camera, any camera, of the format of your choice. A lens with a focal length equal to the format diagonal. One film, one developer.
Stick with this for one year. Use it as much as possible. Apply Occam's Razor.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/occam.html

winger · Mar 19, 2015

E. von Hoegh said:
yup. What he^^ said.
My zwei pfennig, get a camera, any camera, of the format of your choice. A lens with a focal length equal to the format diagonal. One film, one developer.
Stick with this for one year. Use it as much as possible. Apply Occam's Razor.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/occam.html

+1

I started with a Cambo monorail about 7 years ago. Somehow, it bred and I now have a Speed Graphic, a Crown Graphic (which might work for skateboarding, too), and a Chamonix F1. I rarely use the monorail now because the Chamonix can do everything I've needed since I got it and it's a lot lighter. The Cambo is sturdier, but the weight is a big price to pay. If you want to try something to get your feet wet, a speed or crown might be the thing. You don't get much for movements, but they're easier to haul around and you still get that nice big negative. These days, you can probably sell one for what you paid, if you don't destroy it with use and decide LF isn't your thing.

LJH · Mar 19, 2015

IMO, you should forget getting a rail camera and look at a field camera. Lighter and much more portable.

Look at Graflex holders. Again, they're compact.

Huge movements are overrated. Pretzeled cameras used in marketing shots are just that - marketing. Unless you're doing some funky tabletop shooting where you need to get front-to-back focus at close range, moderate to minimal movements are all that's required. Add to this the lenses that you've mentioned (wide and extreme wide angle) require minimal swing/tilt to obtain the benefits and most field cameras will suffice.

removed account4 · Mar 19, 2015

LJH said:
IMO, you should forget getting a rail camera and look at a field camera. Lighter and much more portable.

Look at Graflex holders. Again, they're compact.

Huge movements are overrated. Pretzeled cameras used in marketing shots are just that - marketing. Unless you're doing some funky tabletop shooting where you need to get front-to-back focus at close range, moderate to minimal movements are all that's required. Add to this the lenses that you've mentioned (wide and extreme wide angle) require minimal swing/tilt to obtain the benefits and most field cameras will suffice.

i photographed a quarry for a state historic preservation commission a few years ago. if i had a field camera i wouldn't have been able to do it ( even with a 90mm lens )
same with some of the archtectural photography i have done over the years. field cameras are OK but if the OP wants to do architectural photography
sometimes a monorail camera is the way to go ...

YMMV

Sirius Glass · Mar 19, 2015

Obviously you are very wise because you use Hasselblads. Siriusly consider a press camera such as a 4"x5" Pacemaker Speed Graphic. This would allow you to shoot hand held and use it as a view camera with limited movements. Take a look at the files and forum for www.graflex.org.

jerrybro · Mar 20, 2015

It would be hard to go wrong with either of these:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Regular Rod · Mar 20, 2015

jerrybro said:
It would be hard to go wrong with either of these:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I couldn't agree more. The Toyo has the added advantage of being foldable with lens still in situ, like an MPP...

4x5 is a good format for the halfway house between Medium and Large Format. Get stuck in!

RR

fdonadio · Mar 20, 2015

Alan Gales said:
Here you go, Flavio. :http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

Thanks a lot, Alan! Got all my questions answered in much more detail than I even thought was possible!

Now I feel kind of ashamed about my question #4...

Cheers,
Flavio

fdonadio · Mar 20, 2015

Brian,

Thanks a lot for your answers. A few comments:

BrianShaw said:
1. Yes, with a few things to consider: some lenses are very big and heavy and might be a challenge on a lighter camera; some of the biggest old shutters may be a challenge if the lens board is small.

So you mean a bulkier camera may be desirable if I want to use bigger (heavier and faster) lenses or shutters (as they are sturdier and take larger lens boards)?

BrianShaw said:
3. It is practical on a "system" camera like Calumet/Cambo SR series. But convenience may be another issue.

When I said "practical", I should have said "convenient"... I'll consider having two bodies, if the money (and my wife) permits.

BrianShaw said:
5. For a question like this the answer generally is what the person writing the answer uses. So I'll indulge: Calumet/Cambo SR series is inexpensive and will do everything you want. But it isn't lightweight.

I am used to carrying weight, as I have a very complete (by my own standards) Hasselblad 500C/M system (4 lenses, 3 backs, 2 viewfinders, pistol grip...) and take it to the streets to shoot skateboarding (maybe kind of crazy, but...) I also do a lot of night shots and have three Metz 45 flashes that I carry in a separate case. By now you should've figured out my car is a very valuable asset.

One of the things I look for in LF (and maybe you guys can tell me a lot about it) is the "take your time" thing some people talk about. I can be very agile with my MF equipment. I want to slow down even more.

Also, I am advancing towards making my own film (see my posts in the "Silver Gelatin Based Emulsion Making & Coating" forum) and LF seems to be perfect for this.

Well... I am more interested about the trade-offs in size, weight, sturdiness and portability. Not that I want to go into very long hikes with the LF equipment. I am not really into hiking that much, but I like nature and may even consider getting an MF rangefinder (like the Fujica G690 or GL690) for these occasions, instead of lugging an LF system or even my Hasselblad system. But I may change my mind in the near future...

Cheers,
Flavio

fdonadio · Mar 20, 2015

E. von Hoegh said:
yup. What he^^ said.
My zwei pfennig, get a camera, any camera, of the format of your choice. A lens with a focal length equal to the format diagonal. One film, one developer.
Stick with this for one year. Use it as much as possible. Apply Occam's Razor.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/occam.html

Thanks for the advice, for getting me to learn how to say "two cents" in german and for the link about Occam's Razor!

Cheers,
Flavio

fdonadio · Mar 20, 2015

winger said:
If you want to try something to get your feet wet, a speed or crown might be the thing. You don't get much for movements, but they're easier to haul around and you still get that nice big negative.

LJH said:
IMO, you should forget getting a rail camera and look at a field camera. Lighter and much more portable.

Regular Rod said:
I couldn't agree more. The Toyo has the added advantage of being foldable with lens still in situ, like an MPP...

Thanks for the tips, but I am leaning more towards a view camera.

Maybe it's just some kind of misconception (or even unconscious prejudice) on my part, but... Well, maybe I just want to look "stylish" with my dark cloth and VERY big camera. These new kids with their digital cameras seem to be respected for the size of their lenses, so I expect some respect for the size of my camera!

(obviously, I am joking, as I could go for ULF for once!)

Cheers,
Flavio

E. von Hoegh · Mar 20, 2015

fdonadio said:
Brian,

Thanks a lot for your answers. A few comments:

So you mean a bulkier camera may be desirable if I want to use bigger (heavier and faster) lenses or shutters (as they are sturdier and take larger lens boards)?

When I said "practical", I should have said "convenient"... I'll consider having two bodies, if the money (and my wife) permits.

I am used to carrying weight, as I have a very complete (by my own standards) Hasselblad 500C/M system (4 lenses, 3 backs, 2 viewfinders, pistol grip...) and take it to the streets to shoot skateboarding (maybe kind of crazy, but...) I also do a lot of night shots and have three Metz 45 flashes that I carry in a separate case. By now you should've figured out my car is a very valuable asset.

One of the things I look for in LF (and maybe you guys can tell me a lot about it) is the "take your time" thing some people talk about. I can be very agile with my MF equipment. I want to slow down even more.

Also, I am advancing towards making my own film (see my posts in the "Silver Gelatin Based Emulsion Making & Coating" forum) and LF seems to be perfect for this.

Well... I am more interested about the trade-offs in size, weight, sturdiness and portability. Not that I want to go into very long hikes with the LF equipment. I am not really into hiking that much, but I like nature and may even consider getting an MF rangefinder (like the Fujica G690 or GL690) for these occasions, instead of lugging an LF system or even my Hasselblad system. But I may change my mind in the near future...

Cheers,
Flavio

Then there's one option only. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/deardorff-8x10/ You will take a lot of time with this, and if you like spending money it will help there too. I have the 54th one made with front swings, I restored it in 1989, have used it ever since, and if I had to have one camera only this would be it. Get a set of Goerz Dagors too.

It's wonderful to hike with. The camera weighs 13 pounds, the tripod 16 pounds, filmholders a pound each, lenses a pound or two (for the Dagors)
and an all up day hiking setup including lunch and so on is 50 - 55 pounds.

BrianShaw · Mar 20, 2015

Hi Flavio. Realize one thing: there is no single best answer to any of your questions. But for me what has worked is a heavier monorail. Two of the lenses I use are very heavy or big. The f/5.6 90 Schneider is a beast in terms of weight, and the 12 inch Commercial Ektar ahs a shutter nearly the size of a dinner plate. So the Cambo with its 6-inch lens boards has worked well, and the generous movements have met all needs (even though I generally use only little bits of movement). Most of my work is out of the trunk. For anything where traversing great distance is required I use a Graphic press camera... but can't use the big lenses or any short lenses... and it has limited movements.

In terms of "practical vs convenient... I know what you are talking about. I've been through the same thought process and never bought the additional camera to configure for short lenses. Just not enough need for such convenience in my case. Nor has the occasional thoughts of getting a folding wooden camera to save weight either.

There are plenty of tradeoffs between camera weight and lens weight. Many people seem to prefer a lighter wooden camera and select a lighter lens. Way back when I got started I thought about that and opted to save money. Cambo was a small fraction of the cost of a Wista or Zone VI wooden camera. For me it worked out just fine since I'm still using that same camera after 33 years. Or... maybe I just don't know any better.

Someone may have said this already, but once you settle on your real needs just buy something and get started. LF can be very satisfying and fun.

BrianShaw · Mar 20, 2015

p.s. Don't be embarrassed about question #4. There are no dumb questions!

fdonadio · Mar 20, 2015

jerrybro said:
I'm a trunk shooter, if you have visions of venturing into the great outdoors a monorail could be a pain to work with. There have been times I wish I had a smaller field camera, not a lot, but they have happened.

jnanian said:
sometimes a monorail camera is the way to go ...

Thanks you guys for the advice.

I envision myself as a "trunk shooter" too, specially when using an LF camera. Tough, as I said before, I don't mind carrying weight.

Now I just need to know which camera. There are so many options and it's very confusing for me. Making and informed decision is being tough, to say the least...

Cheers,
Flavio

Alan Gales · Mar 20, 2015

fdonadio said:
Thanks you guys for the advice.

I envision myself as a "trunk shooter" too, specially when using an LF camera. Tough, as I said before, I don't mind carrying weight.

Now I just need to know which camera. There are so many options and it's very confusing for me. Making and informed decision is being tough, to say the least...

Cheers,
Flavio

If you are shooting out of your trunk then just pick up a cheap monorail and a 210mm f/5.6 lens to start. A monorail will do everything that you want. If you later decide to go hiking distances with a camera then pick up a lightweight field camera. It is really nice to have both if you can afford it.

Here in the U.S. Cambo/Calumet and Toyo monorails are really cheap and plentiful and a good choice. My first camera was a Cambo SC. Sinar is plentiful and a little more money. I favor the Sinars and own a geared Sinar P. If you want lighter weight go for the Sinar F series. You don't need a geared camera but it is a nice luxury but of course heavier. I also own an 8x10 lightweight field camera. I've got a bad back and there is no way I could carry around an 8x10 monorail.

fdonadio · Mar 21, 2015

E. von Hoegh said:
Then there's one option only. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/deardorff-8x10/

[...]

The camera weighs 13 pounds, the tripod 16 pounds, filmholders a pound each, lenses a pound or two (for the Dagors) and an all up day hiking setup including lunch and so on is 50 - 55 pounds.

Wow... It would be an incredible setup, I'm sure! But something just a little bit lighter would be more appropriate!

Still, I could envision myself with that gear!

Cheers,
Flavio

fdonadio · Mar 21, 2015

BrianShaw said:
Most of my work is out of the trunk. For anything where traversing great distance is required I use a Graphic press camera...

I could settle for MF in these cases, but I agree it would be nice to have a field camera and always shoot with those huge negatives!

BrianShaw said:
Someone may have said this already, but once you settle on your real needs just buy something and get started. LF can be very satisfying and fun.

That's what I expect! My main objective is fun. That's what photography has been to me for the last 20 years or so...

Cheers,
Flavio

fdonadio · Mar 21, 2015

Alan Gales said:
If you are shooting out of your trunk then just pick up a cheap monorail and a 210mm f/5.6 lens to start. A monorail will do everything that you want. If you later decide to go hiking distances with a camera then pick up a lightweight field camera. It is really nice to have both if you can afford it.

That seems to be the best choice and I'm gonna get the monorail first. An uncle of mine has a Sinar P and a Toyo that he doesn't use anymore and I think the time has come for me to try to get one of those at a good price!

He doesn't seem to be willing to let go of the Sinar, but...

Cheers,
Flavio

LF Newbie choosing a camera

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