LF Dead? I think not!

Steve Hamley · Mar 8, 2006

Folks,

As a self admitted lens junkie, I've noted with great irony the following selling/asking prices over the past few months, with respect to the recent rash of doom and gloom posts scattered across the net.

14" Veritar - over $1,000
Cooke Triple Convertible in Betax - over $1,000
Coated Series VII protar, about same FL as the Cooke - over $1,000
10" Veritar - over $700
10-3/4" Cooke portrait lens - over $1,100
150mm Apo Lanthar - $1,495 on one website (yep, that was a 150mm, not the pricier 210mm or 300mm)
8x20 Korona outfit, over $4,000

Steadily rising prices for good quality Dagors. A lot, but not all to Asian buyers (who seem to prefer the Gold over the Gold Dot).

Long lead times for cameras 8x10 and larger.

Anyone else noticed the recent rise in lens prices (excepting the brassie madness going on here )? A friend and I were talking and agree that LF seems to be in a true renaissance.

So what's going on?

Steve

Dave Parker · Mar 8, 2006

I hope LF is not Dead, if so, I would have to find something else to do!!!!!

Yikes!

Dave

NikoSperi · Mar 8, 2006

Of course the prices are going haywire... I have put a bid out on an Ebay Tachihara! My stock-picking talents are anything to go by, the moment I actually buy a lens to go with the 8x10" is the moment the bottom falls out of the market and all Ape-Huggers actually admit - digital IS better!

Robert Hall · Mar 8, 2006

Keith Cahnam mentioned at Silver that his largest single dealer is in China. It keeps him quite busy.

David A. Goldfarb · Mar 8, 2006

Just stopped at B&H to pick up a few odds and ends.

Darkroom section. Big guy. Big beard, and not the kind of beard worn by elder B&H employees. Not from around here. Asks sales staffer--"If I buy an 8x10" camera with a Schneider lens, and I want to make bigger prints than contact prints, what's an enlarger gonna cost me?"

tim atherton · Mar 8, 2006

David A. Goldfarb said:
Just stopped at B&H to pick up a few odds and ends.

Darkroom section. Big guy. Big beard, and not the kind of beard worn by elder B&H employees. Not from around here. Asks sales staffer--"If I buy an 8x10" camera with a Schneider lens, and I want to make bigger prints than contact prints, what's an enlarger gonna cost me?"

sounds like Larry Towell - heard he was playing with LF....

DeanC · Mar 8, 2006

My completely un-scientific take on what's going on is that digital is completely spanking the 35mm P&S market, spawning a renewed interest in photography in general and that people who are getting bitten by the photography bug for more than just snapshots seem to be becoming dissatisfied with digital and are looking very seriously at film based solutions. It won't surprise me at all if digital photography ultimately turns out to be very good for film based LF.

BradS · Mar 8, 2006

I don't want to get into the forbidden topic of discussion but, I think your analysis is pretty accurate DeanC. That new consumer electronics based imaging technology is sparking new interest in the real thing.

As W.C. Fields (?) once said, "News of my death is greatly exagerated".

bill schwab · Mar 9, 2006

DeanC said:
...digital is completely spanking the 35mm P&S market, spawning a renewed interest in photography in general and that people who are getting bitten by the photography bug for more than just snapshots seem to be becoming dissatisfied with digital and are looking very seriously at film based solutions.

Most definitely there is a rebirth of LF and traditional processes afoot. IMO, digital has become a good crap filter. The salons, clubs and such are magnets for the "photography light" folks. You know... those with a bag full of Cokin effects filters. Most of the serious shooters I know that were bitten by the digi-bug (yours truly included) are coming back. I for one just bought my first 8x10 camera.

Also... at AIPAD this year I am told there was an outright disregard for anything digital. The vintage photographer sales were way up while the contemporaries were down. My dealer told me several people looking at my work thought it "too beautiful to be digital". When told it wasn't, the response was something to the effect of, "I thought all living photographers were working in digital?"

Go figure.

Bill

Nick Zentena · Mar 9, 2006

billschwab said:
"I thought all living photographers were working in digital?"

You could raise your prices then

cperez · Mar 9, 2006

I've noticed that "silly money" has been paid for various LF lenses and cameras all along. Ever noticed what a 360 Fuji A f/10 goes for over the past 5 years? Pretty constant prices, from the looks of things.

I'm a "bottom feeder" and pay as little as I can get away with. Recently picked up a mint 210 Xenar f/6.1 for $165. It's the sharpest most contrasty ~210mm lens I own. Even wide open!

Of course, if the effect y'all are describing is indeed the case, my previous comment will drive 210mm Xenar prices through the roof. Right?

BTW, I was talking with an ex-Liepold lens designer recently. He said they went to Russia for some of their finest lenses. The reason? The optics were brilliant! Even though the lens mounts look like something hewn from cold forged materials using stones. Or something.

User Removed · Mar 9, 2006

Personally, I think that digital is slowing doing away with 35mm and the commercial photographer that used to work with film. However, there is becoming greater intrest in large format photography in the fine art's field.

I'm a student at The University Of Arizona (home of The Center For Creative Photography), and when I first starting classes here last year...NO ONE was shooting anything larger than 35mm. However, since I have introduced what a print from an 8x10 camera looks like to the students, several more students are using the 4x5's now and the school even purchased an 8x10 and asked me to teach weekly workshops on how to use it!

Large format and ULTRA large format photography are going to come back strong and appeal to the fine art photographers who are not happy with digital prints.

By the way, some of the best digital prints I have seen (which are nowhere as nice as silver prints) where scanned from 8x10 and larger negatives!

Ryan McIntosh
www.RyanMcIntosh.net

jimgalli · Mar 9, 2006

cperez said:
BTW, I was talking with an ex-Liepold lens designer recently. He said they went to Russia for some of their finest lenses. The reason? The optics were brilliant! Even though the lens mounts look like something hewn from cold forged materials using stones. Or something.

So Chris, I hear you've got a couple of cases of the hewn from stone Russian lenses to sell eh?

cperez · Mar 9, 2006

Hey Jim!

You know, I knew the moment I hit "Submit Reply" that someone would think exactly that.

No, I don't have a case of hewn from stone Russian lenses. But it did get me to thinking of the possibility of acquiring cheap lenses for 8x10 work.

jimgalli said:
So Chris, I hear you've got a couple of cases of the hewn from stone Russian lenses to sell eh?

Ole · Mar 9, 2006

I shouldn't really say anything, as I've been "accused" of driving the price of simple Angulons up to almost triple over the last few years - but yes, I've noticed the increased prices too. But then again I've just come home from 17 days away to find a $50 Angulon 90mm and a $70 Busch Vade Mecum set waiting for me, so it can't be all that bad?

Now if only I could find a $30 Petzval - preferrably around 600mm, for my 24x30cm camera...

dphphoto · Mar 9, 2006

BradS said:
I don't want to get into the forbidden topic of discussion but, I think your analysis is pretty accurate DeanC. That new consumer electronics based imaging technology is sparking new interest in the real thing.

As W.C. Fields (?) once said, "News of my death is greatly exagerated".

I think Mark Twain said that. Nevertheless, good analysis. Dean

Steve Hamley · Mar 9, 2006

O.K., how about this: a 6-1/2" f:8 WA Gold dagor, $1,624 with about a day to go. Absolute madness!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Goerz-Gold-Ring...ryZ30076QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Steve

cperez · Mar 9, 2006

I've recently considered photography to be a "madness". Then someone goes and proves me right!

Wow. That's a boatload of money I'd never spend on something that would easily be surpassed by a modern chunk of glass... Whew!

Maybe I need to rethink my earlier statement. I think you guys are right. Large format values are on the rise.

Steve Hamley said:
O.K., how about this: a 6-1/2" f:8 WA Gold dagor, $1,624 with about a day to go. Absolute madness!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Goerz-Gold-Ring...ryZ30076QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Steve

Steve Hamley · Mar 9, 2006

Chris,

Yes it isn't logical. I actually have a 6-1/2" WA Gold Dagor in a more desirable Synchro Compur for which I paid far, far, less. It's a great hiking lens which the Ilex version is not. I also have a 150mm Schneider Super Symmar XL that I bought used in mint condition minus a lens cap for a kilobuck; 2/3 the price of the Dagor on eBay - a day before closing.

But the high bidder seems to be Asian and the Dagor is Gold, not Gold Dot as I noted in the previous post.

Go figure.

Steve

Alex Hawley · Mar 9, 2006

Ryan McIntosh said:
Large format and ULTRA large format photography are going to come back strong and appeal to the fine art photographers who are not happy with digital prints.

Think the Revival may have already started Ryan. There's an interesting thread over on the LF Forum that touches on this subject. One of our bretheren from Europe (France I think) is asking why the USA produces so many LF photographers? All sorts of jibber-jabber about why that may be, but its interesting just because its being noticed. China was also mentioned as being currently nuts for LF. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lfforum/topic/505268.html

livemoa · Mar 10, 2006

The local photography shops here (Hong Kong) that deal in second hand cameras seem to be doing a good trade in large format stuff. Lots of linhoff veriwides, graflex etc. And they don't sit around aparently.

As to 35m and medium format, lots of lieca M's (especialy M6), contax and nikon's.

I felt like a kid in a candy factory in one shop, all sorts of stuff that I could have easily bought if I had less sense and more money

highpeak · Mar 10, 2006

Imagine over 11,000 and counting APUGers getting on ebay and searching for lenses.
Nowonder the lens price is going through the roof.

cperez · Mar 10, 2006

That Goerz 6-1/2 inch Gold Ring Wide Angle Dagor went for $2,015!!!

Geez. For that price, couldn't a guy or gal find a nice Super Symmar XL? Or something?

Campbell · Mar 11, 2006

Did someone say LF was dead? Medium format may be on life support but LF seems fine from all I can see.

Digidurst · Mar 11, 2006

Ok, if LF isn't dead, how come I can't sell my (there was a url link here which no longer exists) to save my life?! (Ad edited to include a couple of throw-ins)

LF Dead? I think not!

Steve Hamley

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