Letting go...

[John_Nikon_F]

Due to my current financial and employment situation, I'm living at home with my family. My father doesn't understand why I want to shoot analog, after all it costs money that, according to him, we don't have. Tonight, I got into another argument with him about it. The arguments started when he switched from a Nikomat FTn with 50/2 Nikkor-H to a Canon digital P&S back in 2006. He doesn't understand why I keep shooting those "relics", as he calls my gear. Especially now that I have a Nikon DSLR, which I have never really gotten along with that well.

So, I'm now considering packing it in and just getting rid of everything. I'm tired of dealing with the bickering that occurs every couple months. The gear I'm thinking of purging includes the Hasselblad 500c/m with two A12 backs and 80mm f/2.8 C T* Planar, the Nikomat FTn, Nikon F FTn, F2AS, F4s, FE, and FM2, the 20mm f/3.5 Nikkor-UD, 24mm f/2.8 Nikkor AI'd, 50mm f/1.4 Nikkor AI, 85mm f/1.8 Nikkor AI'd, 105mm f/2.8 Micro-Nikkor AIS, and 300mm f/4.5 EDIF Nikkor AIS. Plus a DW-2 6x magnfying finder, MD-12, MD-2/MB-1, and an SB-80DX with Westcott diffuser, the Nikon Omni-Bounce style diffuser, an SC-17 cable, Stroboframe bracket, and the case. I'd also be getting rid of my off-topic Nikon D1H with three batteries, three CF cards, and firewire cable. There'd also be a Bogen 3221 tripod with 3055 head and a strap, plus a Domke F-2 bag and some 52mm filters. It's no longer fun to go out and shoot, knowing that I might suffer the wrath of my old man, if I happen to shoot with what I enjoy shooting with, instead of what he wants me to shoot with.

-J

 

[Barry S]

This is a family question, not a photography question. If you're looking to build up a huge amount of resentment, have a big fight with your dad, and probably storm out of the house for a good long time, I'd say sell all the gear you love. Living with your family means there are some restrictions on your life, not complete control of your conduct as an adult. It seems like you need to sit down with your father and talk about how this type of photography is important to you and come to some agreement on the amount you budget for photography. Maybe offer to cut back on expenses as a compromise. If that doesn't work, it's better to sleep on a friend's couch.

 

[Andrew Moxom]

J, That's very unfortunate for you. Your circumstances albeit not uncommon these days, is what most families would do when there is hardship and adversity related to unemployment when it rears it's ugly head. I can only imagine what you are going through. Adding family 'opinion's to the mix that do not blend well with your own beliefs in a situation where you are the guest, is also something I've never experienced. I would say though that if you are in a complete bind, cameras are only 'things' or 'tools'. I know it would be excruciatingly hard for me to let any of them go. That said, to me it's family first. To that end, I would try to keep your picture taking to a minimum while you are on your temporary stay. Remember, it's only temporary. I'd only let the stuff go if I had no other option or I needed to feed the family as there was no other alternative. If there is no compelling reason to sell your gear other than peer pressure, quit using it until your circumstances change. Just avoid the scenario that triggers the arguments. I hear you when you say you feel obligated to let it all go. I would hesitate to do this.... It's only a temporary arrangement, and you will likely not get what you'd like for it, and it will only become another source of resentment when all of this is behind you. It's unfortunate that your father is not receptive to your point of view. I know that it must be adding more stress to your plate. I don't have an answer to that, other than avoid it being an issue so that it does not make you feel that picture taking with film is not right for you.... Come back to it when your circumstances are different. It might be a while, but you will have your escape once that time comes so you are fresh to start making new images again without any baggage associated with it. Hope this helped? Best of luck to you...

A.

 

[MattKing]

John:

If you want to make a symbolic gesture, sell a body or two and put some of the rest of the gear on the shelf for a while.

And whatever you do, don't buy anything new for a while.

I expect that it is easier for your father to tell you to switch to digital than it is to tell you to cut back on what you love.

Do you and your father ever go shooting together?

 

[guitstik]

Introduce your dad to APUG.

 

[John_Nikon_F]

Thanks guys. I've actually been living at home for a while, even while I was employed. So, it's not really a temporary guest situation. Just have a fairly close-knit relationship between everyone. That said, my father and I have never really gotten along well. There's always been an underlying tension between the two of us (as well as him with my sister and my mother).

Matt, with respect to shooting together, maybe back in the 1980's. He sorta retired from shooting in 1987 when I took over the FTn for a while, but would still do it every once in a while. Nowadays, the only time he's shooting anything is when he's documenting some emergency preparedness exercise or an awards banquet, etc. That's one reason why he's shooting a PowerShot SD800, instead of a Nikomat FTn or even a Nikon D80, etc.

So, I've mainly been solo when it comes to photography. Which is ok. I don't really mind it. Allows me to have some peace & quiet time - except for when the MD-2 advances the roll to the next frame. Something I don't really get around here, due to my 2-year old niece living with us as well.

I guess I'm just feeling a bit frustrated at the moment. I probably will keep most of the gear I have, but am selling the FE body and the extra A12 back on CL and will be posting them up here.

@guitstik - I wish that'd work. But, since he's gone 100% digi, he has no interest in shooting film. Not one bit. To him, a film camera is akin to a wooden boat. Something to sink money into without getting anything in return.

-John

 

[BradS]

hmm...I get the feeling that even if you sold every scrap of you film kit, your father would still find something to bitch at you about.

the obvious solution is for you to move out. if you're not willing to do that, then put your film kit away for a while...or sell the digital junk and use the proceeds to buy film!

 

[Paul Sorensen]

You could try downsizing your collection in order to acquire money for film and processing. Also, you could work in both film and digital, using the digital as a "proofing" device to work on composition and exposure and then using the film when you feel like you have the image fully visualized, that might cut down on the amount of film you go through.

I do suspect that there is some sort of transference going on here, however. I can't see why it would matter so much to him what particular type of images you are shooting, digital or film. I think he is angry about something else and he has made film photography the scapegoat.

If he has issues with the money, that should be the discussion, not whether something is a relic. You may indeed need to cut back on spending during this time, and you may wish to shoot film less as a part of the fiscal responsibility program, but his anger about film in particular is something else entirely. How would he respond if you started spending hundreds of dollars on ink jet cartridges and paper to make digital prints? That can get pretty pricy too.

I do agree with Brad here, you might want to see about figuring out a way to get out of that particular living arrangement. My relationship with my mother sure improved once I got the heck out of the house, it can do wonders.

 

[Worker 11811]

So, it sounds like he's an experienced photographer. If he is, he should know the advantages and disadvantages of traditional and digital photography. It sounds like he's just picking a fight.

He should know that digital and traditional photography have their own place. He should know about quality and permanence issues. He should know that a hobby is valid in its own right, regardless of whether it is digital photography, traditional photography. You could just as well collect stamps or coins. Collecting photography equipment is the same thing. The only difference is that you can't take pictures with a scrapbook full of stamps.

If you are over 21 and you pay rent or, at least, do your share of work around the house there is little that he can say that would make a VALID argument. He can argue any point he wishes to make but it's not necessarily valid. Like I said, traditional photography is a valid hobby and as such, it doesn't need to be justified.

It sounds to me like he would be hollering at you even if your hobby was stamp collecting.

Therefore, it sounds to me like his beef is not really about photography. It sounds like it's something else. If only we knew what that "something else" was.

In order to keep the peace, it would be wise to tone down the photography but I don't think giving it up, all together is the answer. If you did, he'd just find something else to bitch about. Wouldn't he?

In the mean time, if you pay rent or if you are responsible for chores, be sure you are square. If you are not responsible for these things, you could offer. That would mean that you are putting your best foot forward and meeting him half way. Even if he doesn't give in, he would be more likely to meet you half way. The rest of this is a cloudy family issue that I can not understand. It's something you'll have to work out yourself.

However, if you want to rub it in a little bit...

Sell a photo or two. Make sure you get paid in cash or convert the payment to cash. "Casually" leave the money on the table where you "know" he'll see it. When he asks, just tell him that you sold a photo in a very nonchalant way. Then pick up the money and put it in your pocket.

That'll really toast his marshmallows! There will be no valid excuse to complain but it certainly won't smooth things over between the two of you, though.

Consider that strictly a Gedanken experiment...

 

[lns]

John, I'm sorry for the stress. You're in a difficult situation. I didn't always see eye-to-eye with my parents growing up (though they are wonderful people). There's a normal tension between parents and children. I was determined to become independent as soon as I could, and, honestly, that made all the difference.

I'm now a mother, and I can see both sides. If you are old enough to have all that equipment, but not fully employed, and not out on your own, but living with your parents, then you are in some ways asking your parents to subsidize your lifestyle. That can breed resentment. Then your dad feels entitled to comment on your lifestyle. You don't want him judging your choices. But he doesn't want to support his adult son engage in what he considers frivolous things. It could be film, it could be video games, it could be concerts, it could be anything. The point is, he's subsidizing it, in his mind.

Also, reading between the lines, it seems like not only you, but your sister and her 2-year-old are living in the family home. That could create a lot of stress for your dad.

Seriously, the root of all this isn't the film photography. It's that you are underemployed and living with your parents. I'm guessing that he isn't comfortable with that situation, and he doesn't want you to become comfortable with it. So, if I were you, I'd figure out a plan to become fully independent, with an apartment, a job, a career path, and school if appropriate. You can still be close to your family not living under the same roof. Really, it probably will improve your relationship.

-Laura

 

[mjs]

Pack your stuff away and be patient. This economy will, eventually, get better. When it does, you can open the box and rejoice that all your friends are still there, waiting for you.

Mike

 

[BradS]

John, I'm sorry for the stress. You're in a difficult situation. I didn't always see eye-to-eye with my parents growing up (though they are wonderful people). There's a normal tension between parents and children. I was determined to become independent as soon as I could, and, honestly, that made all the difference.

I'm now a mother, and I can see both sides. If you are old enough to have all that equipment, but not fully employed, and not out on your own, but living with your parents, then you are in some ways asking your parents to subsidize your lifestyle. That can breed resentment. Then your dad feels entitled to comment on your lifestyle. You don't want him judging your choices. But he doesn't want to support his adult son engage in what he considers frivolous things. It could be film, it could be video games, it could be concerts, it could be anything. The point is, he's subsidizing it, in his mind.

Also, reading between the lines, it seems like not only you, but your sister and her 2-year-old are living in the family home. That could create a lot of stress for your dad.

Seriously, the root of all this isn't the film photography. It's that you are underemployed and living with your parents. I'm guessing that he isn't comfortable with that situation, and he doesn't want you to become comfortable with it. So, if I were you, I'd figure out a plan to become fully independent, with an apartment, a job, a career path, and school if appropriate. You can still be close to your family not living under the same roof. Really, it probably will improve your relationship.

-Laura

Re-read what Laura said above...then read it again and again and again. She's hit the nail on the head.

 

[jerry lebens]

Leaving aside the reasons for your dad's attitude (who knows for sure?) you need to rationalise your photography. It's happened to lots of photographers in the past and it'll happen again. In my case it's happened more than once ; selling my beloved Leica kit for a cheaper, more adaptable, Nikon kit, when I turned pro was a particularly difficult choice.

The first question is : Are you a hobbyist (no insult intended), or do you really want to become a professional photographer?

If you seriously want to become a pro then, no matter your personal feelings, a digital outfit would be a better starting point - it's much more adaptable for general purpose photography (like my Nikon was) and you'll save on film. If you're just starting up as a pro, then I'm afraid film isn't a good option, unless you can find customers who actively want a photographer who uses film (Clue : there ain't many). Basically, limiting yourself to film isn't a rational business choice in the current environment. (I'm sorry if this answer doesn't suit a lot of Apuggers, but needs must when the devil drives).
So, sell your 'blad and all your Nikon bodies and buy a Nikon DSLR body, it'll work with your Nikkor lenses if you want to keep them. I'd keep them because what you lose in autofocus and automatic metering, you'll gain in 'bokeh' etc. - it'll also give you some of the satisfaction of using lenses manually, the way you did with analogue. If you make it as a pro, you can maybe return to film once you've built up a loyal client base.

If you're a hobbyist, think hard about what sort of photography you really want to do and keep the best kit for that purpose, then sell the rest. You may have to think about limiting the kind of photography you want to do. If it was me, I'd sell the Nikon and keep the 'blad because I like the slower, more considered, style of shooting you get from a 'blad. In fact, if the 'blad is your choice, sit down and think hard whether you could do the same thing with, say, a Mamiya TLR. Having a 'blad is great but not if you can do the same thing with something cheaper. If you prefer shooting 35mm sell the 'blad and all but one Nikon body.

If you do either of the above, then your dad should be able to appreciate what you've done and, hopefully, be impressed by your sacrifice. Maybe he'll even support you in your photography . On the other hand, if you won't sell any of your kit, then it's probably not your dad who's got the attitude problem, it's time to leave home.

Last of all, if you do start selling your kit, you may even start to make a bit of money. Have you considered setting up to deal in photographic equipment?

 

[wblynch]

I just went through the same thing (almost)...

Last year my married daughter and her husband moved in with us to save money (supposedly for a d/p on a house). They were here for 6 months.

During the time, they did nothing to help around the house, and they didn't save a dime. Spent their time and $$ out on the town every night with their buds.

The resentment in me grew to the point that we had a huge blowout one night. It was intense. My daughter threatened me with, "We are SO out of here!". As much as I love them, of course I was happy to see them go.

A little help around the place would have gone a long, long way.

------

Perhaps there are things you can do to help your Pop?

Sounds like he's not upset with your gear, only that you could shoot digital for a while and save during the tight times.

Maybe trim your Nikons down to 2 bodies and use the D1H for now?

 

[John_Nikon_F]

Thanks guys. With respect to selling the gear, I've had time to think it over and I may get rid of a couple pieces, but will be keeping the rest. Probably will let the Nikon FE go, along with the extra A12 back. The Hasselblad kit cost me about the same as a C330 would. Body's bargain grade, lens was a straight across trade for a Nikomat FT2 with 50mm Nikkor and a minty Nikon F4 with data back and 50mm AF Nikkor. So, I didn't pay much for it at the time. As mentioned in my original post, I do have a Nikon DSLR. Granted, it is a 1st generation body, so it's not really useable for stock photography.

Here's how much I've paid for my bodies and glass:

Nikon F FTn: $75 in January 2008, did have it overhauled a few months ago
Nikon F2AS: $50, plus trade of F2 Photomic, MD-1/MB-1, and a 50/2 Nikkor-H
Nikon FE: $35 - needed a minor repair that I did myself. Planned to sell anyway.
Nikon FM2: $10+ship.
Nikomat FTn: $50, paid with money I earned from the sale of non-photo items.
Nikon F4: $100, again, like the Nikomat.

20mm f/3.5 Nikkor-UD: $150 B-day gift in 2009
24mm f/2.8 Nikkor: part of the $50 F2AS deal - if I hadn't purchased the lens, the F2AS would've been a straight trade.
50mm f/1.4 Nikkor AI: paid $40
85mm f/1.8 Nikkor: $90 in 2007, traded a 50/1.4 Nikkor-S for it, dropped price to $60, plus tax.
105mm f/2.8 Micro: another straight across trade for some older gear that I'd had
300mm f/4.5 EDIF: $50 after trade of some Nikon F3 stuff and a couple lenses that weren't that great

500c/m body: $150
A12 back that I'm keeping: $90, traded some stuff for it, so don't remember the final price.
A12 back I'm selling: $25 - selling for $60
Lens mentioned above

SB-80DX flash: $20
DW-2 finder: $35

I do have some options with respect to employment. I'm going to restart my computer tech support business for one. If I get some more clients, then I can start building up my savings account again.

The main thing is that I have to stop selling/reacquiring gear. That's what is killing me, even though I've been able to get stuff cheap. I don't need to buy something, shoot it for a couple months, then trade it for something else, then realize that I have seller's remorse and buy the item I traded away back.

With respect to selling photographic equipment as a job, if I were doing it through a store, that might be detrimental to whatever I earn. I used to work for a Volvo auto wrecker/repair shop. While I was there, I probably spent about 85% of each paycheck on parts for my car. Same thing would happen with photo equipment. Now, if I decided to do it as a private seller, it might not be that bad, if I'm able to get items for dirt cheap, learn how to refoam them, and sell them at a profit. I have noticed a lot of gear on KEH in their as is area that is being sold as "Needs Foam, untested". Or, "Bad Foam".

So, I have a few things to think about.

-J

 

[Shawn Dougherty]

hmm...I get the feeling that even if you sold every scrap of you film kit, your father would still find something to bitch at you about.

the obvious solution is for you to move out. if you're not willing to do that, then put your film kit away for a while...or sell the digital junk and use the proceeds to buy film!

This about sums up my point of view.... Good luck!

 

[flatulent1]

Oh, that really sucks. Take a deep breath, let it out. Repeat as needed. And don't sell the gear you care about.

I'm in much the same position as you, only my father died ten years ago and I've become my 90 year old mother's caregiver. She's blind, so she can't inventory my gear accumulation, but she does notice when I get packages and tells me I shouldn't be spending my money. When my unemployment runs out in a few months I may have to pack away the film gear and dust off the 5D. But I'm not selling any of my film gear, I love that stuff.

 

[Bill Burk]

Good luck whatever you do. Doesn't sound like you tied up a lot of money in cameras, so if the problem is the cost of film, you can do what everyone did in the 70's. Get a bulk loader and a few 100' rolls of your favorite bw film and shoot to your heart's content. It's cheap. Or shoot whatever film you can get your hands on and send in for develop only. You don't have to take this advice, it's just fun thinking about.

Now since there's a 2-year old in the house, get a locking cabinet for the chemicals. That is firm advice.

 

[j-dogg]

My dad gives me shit for owning 4 35mm's, when I should be in school (I am) or working (just got the pink slip yesterday) I retort with "Well I could be slanging rocks or sellin' dope"

That usually shuts him up

 

[Nikon Collector]

Sorry

I really hate situations like this, I'm 63 and live on my own, at several times in my history I've had to temporarily shelve the photography. I too have a digital point and shoot that I enjoy using at patiies and social events. To me the digital camera has replaced the instant gratification of the poloroid and no one can deny the ease of posting digital shots to the web, but, as someone said, if you collect antique black powder pistols or stamps, if collecting this item gives you joy, then stick with it. I've noticed prices for analog camera equipment, especially Nikon, has increased dramatically in the last year. Maybe you could explain it to him as an investment.

 

[BrianL]

I think you need to sit and talk and listen with your family and find out what it is that is the real source of the frustration and then act. I have a stay at home kid who has been threatened to be kicked out a couple of times and other than that he is a full time student now would have been. My frustration was not he was talking to friends, etc. but, I saw he was not planning and doing anything to change the situation and move forward in becoming responsible for himslef and his life.

As you are unemployed and living with your family, they are supporting you financially and this is a strain and probably at theor age a concern it is chewing into their reserve funds. Even something as small (depends on one's view) as buying and developing and printing film is a drain if they are ultimately paying the tab.

As to the photography equipment and shooting issue, sit with him and explain that you are curtailing the film shooting until your current situation is reversed and you are going to sell of enough equipment to fund the purchase of a decent (no Olympus E-3 or othr totl camera) as photography is important to keeping you focused on moving forward and seeking employment and re-establising yourself as an independent person and you know things like film purchasing and development, hitting the local pub, a Friday noght movie and whatever needs to be put on the back burner until you get back on your feet.

Also, involve him in your planning and execution of how you are moving to correct the situation and listen to his advice though you may not always take it. Remember he just may have some experience that can be a benefit to you.

Now is the time to pull together and not be adversarial. You may want to talk to your parish priest, rabbi, etc. about this as I've recommended it beflre to many clients with family issues and not unsurprisingly they are a good source of help and helping you get beyond the emotion and focus on the problem and solutions.