• Welcome to Photrio!
    Registration is fast and free. Join today to unlock search, see fewer ads, and access all forum features.
    Click here to sign up

Let's say you're 18 and want to go pro. How do you spend the next four years?

I have an undergrad in Photography....its about worth as much as the paper its printed on. Everything that I know about how to make a living as a photographer I have learned through working for and with other photographers. 90% of everything that I have picked up was not in a class room. And some of that was just because of a passion for the medium and wanting to know more about it.

I am going back to grad school this fall- I want to teach and earn some semblance of retirement and health insurance when all is said and done-- I've given up the dream of building a dream business....but I have learned:

--Take business courses and work for other photographers. Learn to work with and for people you dont like- the world is full of them and it makes working with the people that you do like that much better to work with.


--Learn marketable skills as a photographer- Learn copy work, a general knowledge of how weddings work, some product photography, portraiture, headshots/model photos and how to light EVERYTHING!! Being specialized is GREAT, you can charge more and you can be highly elite in the field, but being able to pay the bills as a general practitioner in the medium is a better for your health and mortgage!

--While you are an assistant make connections.

--Dont rely on photography when you are starting out to answer your money woes-
The more money you put into marketing, promos, mailers, advertising, charity and community events, fund raisers...blah blah blah...the more you will get out of it. But....it all takes money on your end. Money that you may not have when you are just starting out and the car insurance is due in a week, or whatever it may be. Have a SECOND job...yeah sounds like hard work having two jobs....but life wasnt designed to be easy!

Starting a small business is a hard job- the research, odd jobs, assisting/apprenticing that you do while you are just starting out is crucial to securing a marketable skill set in a hard economy.

If you start busting ass now...you will be better prepared that most of you peers when you get out of college.

All the best,
 

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
and
You can lead a student to knowledge but you can't make him think.

Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach.
Those who can't teach, teach others to teach.

Steve
 
st3ve said:
Medium of photography and outside factors aren't relevant for this question.
Click to expand...

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "medium of photography" but if you want to go pro I believe the genre is very much germane. I.E. photojournalism, wedding/social, fine art, advertising.

For example, in most cases a degree will be necessary for being hired as a photojournalist. We might argue that it shouldn't be the case, and we can find examples where it wasn't the case, but that's where major news outlets look.

On the other hand, a degree doesn't matter at all for wedding/social. That doesn't mean business acumen is not essential to success. But most business degrees in 4 year collages are not oriented to the small entrepreneur.

Advertising has it's own requirements, with essentially an apprenticeship from what I understand. But others can weigh in.

So I think you need to give us a hint of what "going pro" means to you. Otherwise, you may get a lot of answers that are right for someone else but wrong for you.
 

I have been quite lucky as I have been employed by the same company as an electronic design engineer for the last 21 years. I have a hands on practical approach and can often find solutions by thinking differently to the normal trained method. I also like to know how to use most of the machinery in the factory and use it myself to make prototype parts (and cameras!) rather than sit at my desk and let others do it for me. I don't have that holy piece of paper with BSc written on it though so I don't know what I would do if made redundant. Bus driver perhaps!

I sometimes think about how I would do things differently if I were young again. With the knowledge I have now I think I would have liked to study law. In the last few years I have become interested in it, particularly contract law. If I could afford it I would do an Open University* course.

(* UK home study university).


Steve.
 
A college degree today is almost like a high school degree was 40 years ago. Just think, 40 years from now, for any some reason, any reason, you need to get a job. What do you find? Hard times, that's what. In economic times like today, even the person with a degree and a steady work record has difficulties. The person, now older, with no degree, well its a double whammy. You start thinking about working where you use to shop, Wallys world. Get the degree and pursue what ever else you want. Besides, you may actully learn something that may help you latter on. JMHO
 
Sirius Glass said:
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
and
You can lead a student to knowledge but you can't make him think.

Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach.
Those who can't teach, teach others to teach.

Steve
Click to expand...

I always thought it was "those who can't teach, teach gym".

And then there's the old Dorothy Parker quote, when at the Ladies' Garden Club meeting and asked to use 'horticulture' in a sentence:

You can lead a horticulture but you can't make her think

I'll put in another vote for communications skills being THE most important thing you can learn from a 4-year degree. Although sometimes it can seem counterproductive - I got my degree in English Literature from a prestige university, but I ended up going into a very different field - I didn't end up in academia, but rather in Information Technology. However, the writing and communication skills are paying off because they will be what enables me to de-shackle myself from the technology grind and move into a decision-making and leadership role.
 
Employers sometimes use degree attainment as a screening device. In other words, it may be less what you learned than the fact that you stuck with it for 4 years and got your degree. Not an issue for a self employed photographer but nice to have in your back pocket.

I'll add my vote for verbal and written communication skills. I did a fair amount of interviewing of recent college grads. Much of my "thumbs up / thumbs down" decision was based on how well the candidate could communicate clearly.

I remember complaining, when I was an undergraduate, about general education requirements that had no direct bearing on my major. I now know how wrong I was about the value of these requirements.
 
Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach.
Those who can't teach, teach others to teach.

As a teacher, I've never been fond of this quote.
 
Get whatever DSLR is popular now, and a copy of whatever editing software is popular now. Find out what the competition is charging for weddings, graduations, and so on, and put lots of ads on Craigslist for slightly less. Make sure you advertise that you will be taking lots of pictures...people want to feel like they are getting a lot for their money. Also get a good desk chair so that you can sit for hours shopping out relatives (at no extra charge). You will definitely want to invest in HDR software and probably a lensbaby so that you can make your pictures look fuzzy and therefore professional.
 
mooseontheloose said:
Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach.
Those who can't teach, teach others to teach.

As a teacher, I've never been fond of this quote.
Click to expand...

As a professor of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science for a decade, I just can't imagine why you do not have a fondness for this quotations. <<insert smile here>>

Steve
 


I do not know what fields of knowlege you deal with but my experience in the realm of engineering, physics and math are similar to:

It is during the screening that I find out if the computer science major can handle the first principles of physics or only ones, zeros and compiliers. If a candidate cannot deal with free space, first principles of physics and mathematical theory then, if I hire the candidate, I either have to teach him or her these subjects or I have to spoon feel the algorithms so that the work can be done. Sometimes I just pass on the candidate because I do not need the extra work.

Yes, degrees matter and so does the ability to write clearly.

Stev
 
So true. Another important quality is loving to learn new things and learning them fast. A degree that's some what related to English Literature degree is a Liberal Arts degree. I think a broad based education is more important that an education that is narrowly focused only in one area. A lot of knowledge in technical areas taught in college is outdated before the student gets his or her degree. Especially in the area of computers and technology. Another important skill is being adaptable to what ever comes along. A lot of college students are studying for new jobs that haven't been created yet. It's great that st3ve wants to be a photographer, but he'll probably have to adapt to new markets, technologies and new styles of photography that comes along. I wish him luck.
 
going to a university / college / technical school as an older student
isn't a bad idea. the 18y/o could assist a well known professional
to learn lighting and shooting techniques
or work in a portrait factory and learn how to pose and talk with
customers and then after he / she feels ready start to do their own thing.
then, when s/he realizes the whole business of photography is who you know
and connections ( and having a drop dead portfolio )
he / she might decide to go to a school and study something
that they are interested in as a "fall back career",.
he / she do photography on the side for friends and maybe the school
( since he / she already has experience in it ) while studying, to earn some cash
and hone his / her skills even more, and maybe put their interest of photography to use in whatever else they have an interest in.
 
mooseontheloose said:
Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach.
Those who can't teach, teach others to teach.

As a teacher, I've never been fond of this quote.
Click to expand...

I prefer:

Those who can, do
Those who understand, teach
 
Trust yourself and follow your dreams.

One thing that is important to remember is you can never do everything yourself in business. Don't try to be a photographer AND accountant, a business manager, a web guy, a printer, a PR person, a janitor and everything else. I know many in business are forced to do as much as they can themselves... but the reality is the success comes for a photographer by being the photographer.

Get help as often as you can.
 
I *think*, one thing we are not talking about is the personal character and trait of this imaginary 18 year old future photographer. For some, college degree and regimented training/education in college courses will be a plus. For some, it won't be - and may even be a negative. Some learn better by books and instructions, some learn better by seeing and emulating.

I agree that education of some form - either by apprenticeship or classes, I don't think we can definitely say which is better universally.

The only thing I'd stress is to learn the business side as well as technique and artistic side. I've seen so many businesses fail because people don't know how to manage day-to-day business affairs. Having a good product is one thing but having a good business sense to keep it going and let it grow is quite another.
 
I'm typing this from thoughts rumbling around in my head. They are meant to help you. Let me put some of them down here!

I've been doing this for a long time. I've had a small business for over 35 years.

Some general observations:

What kind of life style do you want?

How much money do you need to make to enjoy your desired lifestyle? (Unless you inherited money or made a killing with an IPO or made a new discovery!)

Is this going to be your primary source of money? Or will you have a day job?

How many hours each day do you want to work?

How involved will your family (if you have one) want to be in your business?

What market are you going after? I find you can't be involved in many areas or you won't serve any of them very well.

How aggressive are you to get business? Will you get depressed by rejection? How will you pick yourself up and get going again?

What kind of an impression do people get when they meet with you? How good are you at public speaking? How are your leadership skills? How good are you at communicating? I need those at many of the gigs I get hired to do.

What about networking? Where do you go? How much to spend?

Can you close the deal? Do you know how to negotiate?

Can you make your art so as people will want to buy from you?

Maybe keep your day job? Then you can go after the art you want to create.

How would you handle disputes? Would the client be able to get under your skin? Then you have lost the battle when that takes places.

Maybe keep your day job.

Notice, I haven't said very much about things like cameras, film, developers, printing, darkroom, digital, lighting, posing & composition. They are important but are they the most important? Some who act like jerks, their photography is tainted ( it looks not so good) in the mind of the client even though they win awards and contests.

Can you delegate? Where to spend your time? Only 24 hours to each day.

I consider my photography OK but I get a fair amount of business. Why is that do you think? How important is rapport with the subject with people photography?

I could list more ingredients but perhaps you get an idea of some of the qualities to successfully have a photography business. It's a moving target. Things are done differently now than in the past, event the recent past.

Hope this helps you!
 
An undergraduate business degree is close to useless. An MBA is another matter - the degree is worth something, but the worth of the degree holder is whole 'nother matter...

If you want to do photography the first thing you must know is photography. If you need specialized accounting skills hire an accountant.

Get into the best photography institution you can: Rochester Institute of Technology, Brooks, Rhode Island School of Design.

Failing that get into the best university you can that has a good art department and major in photography. Some of the large Art Institutes are also good choices: Chicago, Cleveland, etc. but they won't be as good as assuring you will be able to make a living at it.

After that are community colleges. If the school has a few good photography teachers it may be worth exploring.

None of these will let you get out of school and start a business. No formal education will. After you get out of school you start working for someone else. After 20 years of apprenticeship you can think of trying to make a living on your own.
 
Those who can, do;
Those who can't do, manage;
Those who can't manage, become management consultants;
Those who can't consult or manage, teach;
Those who can't teach, write books;
Those who can't do anything else become politicians.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nicholas Lindan said:
Those who can, do;
Those who can't do, manage;
Those who can't manage, become management consultants;
Those who can't consult or manage, teach;
Those who can't teach, write books;
Those who can't do anything else, become politicians.
Click to expand...

 
it would be interesting to see how many people who dismiss college as irrelevant or useless actually earned a degree.
 
Employers use the need of a degree as a screening tool, however, as time has moved on, most of the persons conducting interviews have degrees. Having a degree makes some folks biased, and they look down upon those without. I am not saying this is good or bad. However, I do feel knowledge is power. More is better than less. How you use your knowledge and skills, and determine what success means to you, is a different matter. Intelligence and Education are separate and only parts of the person.
 
The combination of both academic success (degree or at least a certificate) and practical experience is much more persuasive to a prospective employer than either one singly.
 
Nicholas Lindan said:
Those who can't manage, become management consultants
Click to expand...

That's true. I have met a few of those.

Back to the subject. Photography is not rocket science. You don't need a degree to do it any more than you need one to be a plumber.


Steve.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register