Lenses for enlargers - Differences?

Michael Dahlkvist · Apr 10, 2017

Hi,

I have just started out using my enlarger and i was wondering about optics. I have a 80mm lens which i use for my 6x6 negatives. I am aware that it should be 75mm but i dont have that. My question is how will it differ from my 80mm? from what i understand 80mm is suppose to be for 6x7?

My second question is regarding buying new lenses and new ones i have 3 choices from what i could find in sweden atleast. If you guys have any better options i will gladly take them.

1. https://www.photax.se/product/el-nikkor-75-4-0-forst-optik - Nikkor lens 228 Euros
2. https://www.photax.se/product/fujinon-ex-75-4-5-ebc -Fujinon 316 Euros
3. https://www.photax.se/product/75-3-5-forstoringsoptik - Seagull 68 Euros

The price difference is tremendous! How will the different lenses effect my images? From what ive heard is that the cheap ones work fine if u dont want to make big prints (how big is big i dont know)

Jesper · Apr 10, 2017

80mm should be fine. The difference between 75mm and 80mm will certainly not be due to focal length. Try it out and see if you're happy with the result.

bernard_L · Apr 10, 2017

As concerns focal length, and for 6x6 negatives, 80mm is just as fine as 75mm. "I am aware that it should be 75mm" NOT true. Of course, for the same focal length, lenses from different manufacturers might have slightly different quality (sharpness, light dropoff), esp. in the corners, but it's never going to be black-and-white.
Why would you buy a new enlarger lens? when fine lenses are available second-hand for 1/4 of the new price, or less?

Ian Grant · Apr 10, 2017

What's your current lens ? An 80mm is fine for 6x6 & 6x7, the only advantage of a 75mm would be slightly greater enlargement with 6x4.5.

If you do want to upgrade you would be better finding a good second-hand lens and saving money for paper;

Ian

BMbikerider · Apr 10, 2017

An 80mm lens should have better coverage for a 6x6 negative and will generally be of better quality. Some former makers of enlarger lenses made both focal lengths, Nikon, Schneider, Rodenstok and Minolta all had examples. There was a big price difference between the different focal lengths. Of those I think Rodenstock and Schneider are the only ones still in production.

The reduction in magnification by using the 80mm against a 75mm will really not matter a great deal unless every enlargement is made with the enlarger head right ar the top of the column then there will be a slight reduction in enlargement. Stick with the 80mm it will almost certainly be the best option.

Michael Dahlkvist · Apr 10, 2017

I was then missinformed when it came to focal lengths. I was told that it would slighty warp my image compared if i used the 75mm. The 80mm lens i have is a Nikkor so i dont think i will change that from what i hear they are excellent.

Thanks to everyone who responded, iam learning as i go and if it wasent for this community i would simply learn from trial and error. Loosing money and time in the process. Thanks.

Jesper · Apr 10, 2017

Kul med fler svenskar här. Lycka till.

Jeff L · Apr 10, 2017

Already said above. 80mm is just as good as 75mm for 6x6, and you can't do much better than a Nikkor enlarging lens.

MattKing · Apr 10, 2017

90mm is the recommended focal length for 6x7 - not 80mm. There are, however, a few 80mm lenses that have been designed to cover 6x7 as well.
75mm lenses are actually best suited to 6x4.5, although the higher quality ones work well with 6x6.
80mm lenses are recommended for 6x6.
105mm lenses are recommended for 6x9.
And 50mm lenses are usually recommended for 135 film.
If you have the enlarger column height for it, many people use lenses that are a bit longer than the usual recommendation. As an example, I use a 60mm for 135, and a 105mm for much of my 6x7 work.

Leigh B · Apr 10, 2017

A simple rule for enlarger lens focal lengths...

Use the same focal length as a "normal" lens on the camera of that format.
So 6x6 wants 80mm, and 4x5 wants 150mm, for example.

- Leigh

RalphLambrecht · Apr 10, 2017

Michael Dahlkvist said:
Hi,

I have just started out using my enlarger and i was wondering about optics. I have a 80mm lens which i use for my 6x6 negatives. I am aware that it should be 75mm but i dont have that. My question is how will it differ from my 80mm? from what i understand 80mm is suppose to be for 6x7?

My second question is regarding buying new lenses and new ones i have 3 choices from what i could find in sweden atleast. If you guys have any better options i will gladly take them.

1. https://www.photax.se/product/el-nikkor-75-4-0-forst-optik - Nikkor lens 228 Euros
2. https://www.photax.se/product/fujinon-ex-75-4-5-ebc -Fujinon 316 Euros
3. https://www.photax.se/product/75-3-5-forstoringsoptik - Seagull 68 Euros

The price difference is tremendous! How will the different lenses effect my images? From what ive heard is that the cheap ones work fine if u dont want to make big prints (how big is big i dont know)

From my own experience ,I can highly recommend the EL Nikkors but didn't find much differences between brands.Check if you can get a copy of 'Post exposure' by Ctein;it features an in-depth review of enlarging lenses and is available as a free pdf.

Michael Dahlkvist · Apr 10, 2017

RalphLambrecht said:
From my own experience ,I can highly recommend the EL Nikkors but didn't find much differences between brands.Check if you can get a copy of 'Post exposure' by Ctein;it features an in-depth review of enlarging lenses and is available as a free pdf.

This is amazing, iam already reading it. Thanks for sharing. Will put the PDF here for anyone else.

http://ctein.com/booksmpl.htm

BMbikerider · Apr 10, 2017

Michael Dahlkvist said:
I was then missinformed when it came to focal lengths. I was told that it would slighty warp my image compared if i used the 75mm. The 80mm lens i have is a Nikkor so i dont think i will change that from what i hear they are excellent.

Thanks to everyone who responded, iam learning as i go and if it wasent for this community i would simply learn from trial and error. Loosing money and time in the process. Thanks.

I don't know what they mean 'warp the image' I think they are either miss-informed or just quoting something else someone else said (Chinese whispers). Take no notice. The Nikkor is as good as almost anything available today - even used.

Paul Howell · Apr 10, 2017

For past 50 or so years I have 75mm 80mm and 90mm with 6X6, I use the 90 when printing 5X5 or 5X7. Some printers use a 90 for up to 11X14 as they feel a 90 is shaper in the corners, I cannot say that I have not any issues with corners when printed at F8 or 11 with either 75 or 80. If you have a good quality 80 I don't see any reason to change lenses.

Gerald C Koch · Apr 10, 2017

You get what you pay for. Stick with the first tier manufacturers like Schneider, Nikon, Minolta,... Within a brand get the best grade that they make. For example a Scheider Componon S is better than their Componar. However, if you enlarger is rickety or in need of alignment then a new lens will not help. Good lenses need good enlargers.

mklw1954 · Apr 10, 2017

As others have said, the 80mm EL-Nikkor should be fine. The prices of the Nikkor and Fujinon 75mm lenses you found (228 euro = $241, 316 euro = $334, respectively) are extremely high unless they are new. You can get these lenses in excellent condition used for about 25% of those prices, at least in the U.S. The Nikkor 75mm lens is a 4-element lens while the 80mm is a 6-element lens, so the 80mm lens would in general be expected to be better.

darkroommike · Apr 10, 2017

Of the common 80mm lenses, and as far as I know, the El-Nikkor is the only one reputed to cover 6x7. I used one many years ago on an M-800 Durst and had no issues printing 6x7, I was much less aware then as a printer so I may have had issues I was "blind" to. Most of the other 80mm's are better suited to 6x6.

jjphoto · Apr 10, 2017

OP, an 80mm lens will be fine (as are 75mm lenses which are normally for 6x6) but buy a 6 element lens like the 5.6/80 Nikkor, not a 4 element lens like the 4/75 Nikkor (but sometimes it doesn't matter such as when making small prints). This table tries to define this kind of information for many brands of enlarging lenses http://www.photocornucopia.com/1061.html

Minolta, Schneider, Rodenstock, Fujinon EX and EP lines (not the ES line which is 4 element), Nikon are all excellent, and there are plenty of others to choose from too.

Leigh B · Apr 10, 2017

jjphoto said:
This table tries to define this kind of information for many brands of enlarging lenses http://www.photocornucopia.com/1061.html

That appears to be rather old information. There's no date on the page.

It does not include any of my high-end Schneider APO-Componon HM enlarger lenses.
I think these are the best such lenses on the planet.

- Leigh

MattKing · Apr 10, 2017

darkroommike said:
f the common 80mm lenses, and as far as I know, the El-Nikkor is the only one reputed to cover 6x7.

The 6 element Rodagon lenses work well as well.

jjphoto · Apr 10, 2017

Leigh B said:
That appears to be rather old information. There's no date on the page.
...- Leigh

The information is old, not the page, because it refers to old lenses. All the information in the page is referenced so you can see where it comes from and it is usually dated, if known.

For example, the information about the Kodak Enlarging Ektars comes from Kodak data dated to 1948 (the same lenses continued to be made 'till about the late 1960's). There are many more OLD enlarging lenses than there are new ones so yes, the information is old because it relates to old lenses. The bulk of the EL's we see on the market today are from about the 1960's to about the 1990's, so yes, that's old.

On the other hand very few NEW enlarging lenses exist and some of the latest that I know of are included (eg. the Rodenstock APO-Rodagon-N 4/75 is the most recent that I know of http://www.photocornucopia.com/1070.html).

Leigh B said:
...
It does not include any of my high-end Schneider APO-Componon HM enlarger lenses.
I think these are the best such lenses on the planet.

- Leigh

I have no information listed about Schneiders but that was a choice I made simply because of the availability of that info on the net so I chose to spend my time on the info that is harder to get. I will fix that eventually, so thanks for reminding me.

gorbas · Apr 10, 2017

Beside all usual suspect from big famous brands another great 80mm enlarging lens is: MEOPTA Meogon S 4/80. Most likely easier found in Europe than in North America

tedr1 · Apr 11, 2017

Here's a little bit about lens quality. With a poor quality lens it is darker in the corners (so the print has light corners) and it is less sharp in the corners. In the center most lenses are sharp, both cheap and expensive ones. Enlarging lenses give best quality closed down from maximum aperture. The two shortcomings, corner darkness and corner blur both improve as the lens aperture is closed down. The best lenses are designed to give the best image quality closed down one stop. The second quality grade are best closed down two stops, the poorer grades three or four stops. So an expensive f4 lens can be used at f5.6. A cheap f4 lens has to be closed down to f11 or f16. The choice of exposure duration is greater when the lens can be used at larger apertures. The maximum aperture is useful for composition, framing and focusing on the baseboard but is usually not used for the exposure.

Michael Dahlkvist · Apr 11, 2017

Iam so exited having gone through all of my equipment. I bought a whole ton of stuff of an old photographer, package deal with a Fujimoto G70 enlarger and tons of stuff. With that a couple of lenses and they are as follows.

80mm Nikkor
50mm Nikkor
35mm meopta mirar 3.5

My question is, what is 35mm used for?

Paul Howell · Apr 11, 2017

My question is, what is 35mm used for?

Some were designed to be used with 35mm as a wide lens for large prints, can be used for 1/2 frame 35mm, 110, and APS. Put a 35mm negative in the carrier and see if the lens covers the corners.

Lenses for enlargers - Differences?

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Lenses for enlargers - Differences?

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