Lens value?

Robert Brummitt · Dec 8, 2004

Hello,
Long ago, I was working for a commercial lab that had this hugh copy camera. The thing looked like a mono rail view camera upside down. It was built into the walls. Anyways, the owners removed the camera for an 8x10/4x5 flatbed.
They tossed everything away. Lens including. I did a little dumpster diving for the lens. It's a Goertz 24 inch, red dot. It's just the lens no shutter.
I know its sharp. But what is its value. Should I put the shutter on it? What is its focal lenth. Do I use it for my LF gear or is it too much lens? I work more in close up detail work.

Robert Hall · Dec 8, 2004

I just bought one off ebay for $600. A little high, but it's in perfect condition.

I'm going to have Grimes put a shutter in it after the holidays.

The focal length is 24" or about 610mm.

Robert Brummitt · Dec 8, 2004

So, extremely telephoto. I know it could cover 11x14 but by how much?

matt miller · Dec 8, 2004

"if you close these lenses down the performance is equal to at least 10-17 lppm out to 65-70 degrees. That is why a 24" Red Dot Artar or Apo-Nikkor, which have a stated circle of coverage of only about 460mm, will easily cover the near 600mm diagonal of the 12X20" format." From a post Sandy King made at the LF forum

I'm not sure how useful it would be for closeup work, especially on an 8x10. You'll need about 4' of bellows. It would be useful for other work though, even without a shutter.

A 610mm on 8x10 is approx equivalent to a 90mm lens on 35mm film.

jd callow · Dec 8, 2004

Robert8x10 said:
So, extremely telephoto. I know it could cover 11x14 but by how much?

Not to be picky, but this lens is not a telephoto.

Robert Brummitt · Dec 8, 2004

Then what? I use 4x5 lens.

Nick Zentena · Dec 8, 2004

It's a 24" lens. A long lens for formats smaller then 12x20. A normal lens for 12x20. A wide lens for bigger formats but it likely won't cover those.

Telephoto is a lens design term. It means the lens needs less bellows then the focal lens to focus at infinity. A 24" will need 24" of bellows to just focus at infinity.

sanking · Dec 8, 2004

Robert8x10 said:
Hello,
Long ago, I was working for a commercial lab that had this hugh copy camera. The thing looked like a mono rail view camera upside down. It was built into the walls. Anyways, the owners removed the camera for an 8x10/4x5 flatbed.
They tossed everything away. Lens including. I did a little dumpster diving for the lens. It's a Goertz 24 inch, red dot. It's just the lens no shutter.
I know its sharp. But what is its value. Should I put the shutter on it? What is its focal lenth. Do I use it for my LF gear or is it too much lens? I work more in close up detail work.

A 24" Red Dot Artar is an excellent lens, but watch how much money you put into it. The 600mm Fujinon-C , multi-coated, is a better lens IMHO, and can be found in used condition from $1000-1300 in a Copal #3 shutter. Having the 24" Red Dot Artar put in shutter will cost you close to $300 for machine work plus the cost of the shutter, which if a Copal 3 is going to be $400 plus.

Of course, another possibility is to find a used Ilex #5 or Compound #5. S.K. Grimes can also do the machine work to put the 24" Red Dot Artar in either of these large shutters.

If you do put it in shutter you will certainly have an excellent lens for formats up to 12X20", but be realistic in cost analysis vis-a-vis the 600mm Fujinon-C.

Sandy

Deckled Edge · Dec 8, 2004

Robert8x10 said:
Then what? I use 4x5 lens.

If you mean you shoot 4x5, then a 24 in. lens is VERY long for you, and probably exceeds your bellows draw. "Robert8x10" however sounds bigger than 4x5. I have used my 24 in. Apo Artar in a #5 Universal Synchro shutter on my 8x10 as one of my favorite lenses. It covers 11x14 at infinity at f22 and above. It is not the sharpest lens in the drawer, but definitely a "keeper" unless you know you have something better.

Robert Brummitt · Dec 8, 2004

I use normal Roddenar lens. 150-210mm. Like I said I just could not let this other lens end up in the land fill. I gather I can't mount it on board and us it for long shots. My camera has a 28" bellows draw. My name is from the camera I used at the lab and what I print. But, I do also have a poor mans Deardroff. It doesn't have a name plate but it does have a Made in India tag. I think its a "Raja"?

rbarker · Dec 8, 2004

Robert8x10 said:
. . . I gather I can't mount it on board and us it for long shots? . . .

With 28" of bellows on your Raja, you could mount it on a board without a conventional shutter, and use a "hat shutter" instead (covering the lens with either a hat or the lens cap, which would be removed manually and replaced) for exposures of a second or two, or more. Not real convenient, and troublesome on windy days, but lots of ULFers do that with barrel lenses. Then, you could evaluate whether you like the lens, and go through the cost/benefit analysis of mounting it in a shutter versus the newer/better lens at about the same cost.
(Used Ilex #5s, by the way are going for about the same price as a new Copal #3.)

Loose Gravel · Dec 8, 2004

I don't know anything about these, but there are Packard shutters that go in the camera for use with barrel lenses. Kinda like a hat, only a little faster. Maybe someone can comment.

Where's this dumpster?

Nick Zentena · Dec 8, 2004

http://www.hubphoto.com/photography-products.htm

Hub photo makes packards.

Deckled Edge · Dec 9, 2004

Unfortunately, there is no Packard shutter large enough to accomodate the 24 in. Artar yet small enough to mount on a 4x5 lens board. It's gonna be lens cap shutter or Copal/Ilex. Even these may strain some 4x5 lens boards--Copal being much more compact than the #5 shutters.

steve simmons · Dec 9, 2004

Just some thoughts.

I would use this lens on a 5x7 and 8x10, maybe larger but not a 4x5. For a 4x5 it is too long for me - 4x normal. On an 8x10 normal is 300-325. Also, these lenses may not be as sharp as a newer lens but on the larger cameras this is much less of a problem.

This is not telephoto design. A telephoto lens is desgned such that the optical center is out in front of the lens (normally it is about the location of the diaphragm). This allows a telephoto to be used on a camera with a bellows too short for a normally designed lens of the same focal length. A telephoto lens requires a bellows extension approx 2/3 of its focal length for an infinity focus.

Is this lens coated. If not I would pass.

steve simmons

Nick Zentena · Dec 9, 2004

Deckled Edge said:
Unfortunately, there is no Packard shutter large enough to accomodate the 24 in. Artar yet small enough to mount on a 4x5 lens board. It's gonna be lens cap shutter or Copal/Ilex. Even these may strain some 4x5 lens boards--Copal being much more compact than the #5 shutters.

I thought he was using an 8x10 with 28" of bellows? The packard can always be front mounted. If he is using a 4x5 then a smaller opening shouldn't be an issue. It'll just cut down some of the coverage. Or would something else go wrong? I can't see using the full circle on a 4x5.

esearing · Dec 9, 2004

OR just sell it and buy something you will use.

Robert Brummitt · Dec 9, 2004

So I guess I should use it with the Raja camera. I also noticed no aperture marks?
I can see F/90. all the way closed. Then some of the numbers afterwards, Do I put a little paint mark then work backwards?

rbarker · Dec 9, 2004

There have been discussions of how to measure apertures on unmarked lenses on the Large Format Information site. I'd suggest doing a search for something like "aperture measurement" at http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lfforum/, and you should find it.

I'd also suggest using adhesive tape, or some other non-permanent marking method, so as not to adversely affect the value of the lens.

Deckled Edge · Dec 11, 2004

Robert8x10 said:
I also noticed no aperture marks?

The hits just keep on comin'. This reminds me of a Buick I once owned.
Two pages into this thread, I'm convinced this is NOT the lens for you. Put it up on e-Bay and let someone fulfill their dreams. Take the money and save up for the lens you really want.

Lens value?

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency