Lens suggestion for Graphic 2x3

Ulrich Drolshagen · May 26, 2007

Hi,

the camera is not exactly LF but the question about my problem may find a more knowledgeable audience here. So I hope this is ok.
I plan to use my little crown with a 6x6 back which I hopefully receive on Tuesday. (This is the largest format I can print so 4x5 is not an option for me, as anybody asks ).
I have pimped the front a little bit so that it has about 45mm rise. This is important for a long term project on trees I have i mind. This works great with the 101mm Raptar. But 101mm is a little bit long for 6x6. So I am in need for a shorter lens.
I see two options at the moment:
f1:6.8/90 Angulon and
f1:8.0/65 Super Angulon

I have not the least idea what the distance between lensboard and groundglass will be (at infinity) with these two lenses; especially whether the 65mm will fit at all.

I'd rather have a lens of about 80mm. The more modern 5.6/75 Super Angulon will surely not fit. Is there something smaller in that range?

Ulrich

PS: Before anybody asks:

darinwc · May 26, 2007

I like a 80mm f2.8 Xenotar on my Century Graphic. It covers 2x3, so since you are only shooting 6x6 you will have a little movement. Its a wonderful lens in many respects.

However, since you mentioned you were working on some tree projects, it sounds like you are looking for something with alot of extra coverage. A 90mm Angulon should do you fine. The 65mm f8 super angulon would also be a good choice, and it will fit nicely.

waynecrider · May 26, 2007

A 65mm lens with that 6x6 back will give you the view of about a 36mm lens on a 35mm camera. Now they are not quite comparable, but it gives you a ballpark. If you shoot film holders the view is like a 28mm lens on 35. Actually much better for tall objects. The Rodenstock Grandagon lineup has wide lenses in Copal 0 shutters on the wide end in 35mm, 45mm, 55mm, 65mm and 75mm, but you may not get the rear element thru the front standard if the rear lens diameter is to big. Make sure you check that. Otherwise you have to unscrew the rear element and insert thru the back. The Schneider Super in 47mm is made for the 2x3 format cameras and is in a Copal 0 as well as their 65mm and 75mm. I read all the lenses as having rather big front filters, (usually meaning watch the rear element) with the smallest being the 47mm SA at 52mm front; should be smaller on the back. Back focus might be tight..As concerns older lenses, and if you hear nothing here, the Lf guys at http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/ are pretty knowledgeable.

Dan Fromm · May 26, 2007

Ulrich, IIRC the 2x3 Crown's minimum flange-to-film distance is 35 mm. I have one, also a Century (same thing with body made of thermosetting plastic instead of mahogany). I use the Century with lenses down to 38 mm. Yes, a Biogon. One of the lenses I use on it is a 65/8 Ilex that, although designed and made in Rochester, is for all practical purposes a 65 SA. I also shoot a 47/5.6 SA on my Century. Back focus is not a problem and neither is mounting. The only lens I have whose rear cell won't clear the Century's front standard is a 58/5.6 Grandagon; to put one of them on, remove rear cell, mount board with shutter and front cell, reattach rear cell from behind. I've never used one, but this is the way the 35/4.5 Apo Grandagon has to be put on a Century.

Both of the lenses you mentioned will work well on your little Crown.

If you want an 80 mm lens with good coverage, look for an 80/6.3 Wide Field Ektar. I have one, it is a very fine lens. These are almost always in shutter and are easier to find to other 80 mm 4/4 double Gauss types like the TTH Cooke Ser. VIIb and the Meyer Aristostigmat.

Good luck, have fun,

Dan

Biogon. Ask the man who has one.

Ulrich Drolshagen · May 26, 2007

Thanks for reply so far!
My main problem is not to get the lens into the board but not to loose my newly gained front rise. As the distance between rear element and groundglass is too small I will not be able to rise.
So I am looking for the shortest lens that will just keep clear from the top of the case as I rise the front at infinity.

Ulrich

waynecrider · May 26, 2007

Since those cameras are worth less and less each year, simply use a jig saw and cut back the top a reasonable distance and use a piano hinge to fold back the top peice. Don't let the body stop you from using a shorter lens. Btw, Dan is the man in 2x3.

Ulrich Drolshagen · May 26, 2007

Dremel became my friend today. Thanks for this suggestion. Nothing will hold me now

Ulrich

Bandicoot · May 26, 2007

Dan Fromm said:
Ulrich, IIRC the 2x3 Crown's minimum flange-to-film distance is 35 mm. I have one, also a Century (same thing with body made of thermosetting plastic instead of mahogany). I use the Century with lenses down to 38 mm. Yes, a Biogon. One of the lenses I use on it is a 65/8 Ilex that, although designed and made in Rochester, is for all practical purposes a 65 SA. I also shoot a 47/5.6 SA on my Century. Back focus is not a problem and neither is mounting. The only lens I have whose rear cell won't clear the Century's front standard is a 58/5.6 Grandagon; to put one of them on, remove rear cell, mount board with shutter and front cell, reattach rear cell from behind. I've never used one, but this is the way the 35/4.5 Apo Grandagon has to be put on a Century.

I have a (modified) Century and also a 2x3 Speed. I've used down to a 38mm on these too, but mine is a Super Angulon XL. This requires the trick of taking off the rear cell and then refitting it from the back: it is a nuisance, but it does work. In fact, once it's fitted these are rather nice cameras to use with this lens.

Both this and the 47mm SA end up inside the body and limit your rise potential unless you carry out some modifications to the camera. The 38mm has such a large rear element that you can't move it much in a 2x3 camera anyway because the bellows can't accomodate it, but the 47mm allows quite a lot of movement.

Peter

Dan Fromm · May 29, 2007

Ulrich Drolshagen said:
Dremel became my friend today. Thanks for this suggestion. Nothing will hold me now

Ulrich

Barbarian! The non-destructive way is to take the front standard apart, remove the wire frame finder, and reassemble.

Ulrich Drolshagen · May 29, 2007

Whether this will be an option depends on the amount of rise I will need. The gain in rise by removing the framefinder is only 15mm (compared to nearly nothing without). With the closing mechanism removed it will be 18mm.
If the modification is done properly, cutting the top will be just a modification of the camera not a destruction. Being a cabinet maker I know that I can do it properly.

Ulrich

PS The real problem is the rear element being in the way, not the front standard

Neanderman · Jun 1, 2007

I'd cast another vote for the 80mm WF Ektar. Plenty of coverage, in the focal range you seem to be looking for and very sharp.

Ulrich Drolshagen · Jun 2, 2007

Hi all,

I just yesterday bought a f8/65 Super Angulon made about 1963. The diameter of the rear element is 42mm and the distance between filmplane and lensboard is 70mm at infinity. I think it will perfectly fit my little crown.

Thank you all for your help

Ulrich

Lens suggestion for Graphic 2x3

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