lens considerations for MF

polyglot said:

markbarendt: Where on earth can I get such a deal!? Actually it's probably best if you don't tell me (SWMBO will kill me), but I would like to know for the near future

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The deals are out there if you are patient.

This was nothing more than a camera club find that the guy needed out of his way at home and had not used in years and everybody around me knows I like film.

Okay, on to marriage counseling.

It was not by design (I'm not that smart) but my SWMBO actually got interested in photography. It started with the Mommy-Snaps but has been nurtured gently to a point where she really thinks about it and wants to win the club's competitions, which she can; she was promoted (against her will) to advanced class because she was winning so much. People in the club are starting to mimic some of her stuff too.

What's the moral of this story with regard to buying cameras? My SWMBO was standing there and said yes first, I didn't even have to ask.

This happened again this week. I knew of a guy in the club with an RB he had not used in 10 years and last month I asked if I could borrow it, he brought it to the meeting this month. SWMBO tried putting on her bargaining face and telling the seller I could not have another camera. Then SWMBO who is a digital girl got her first look through and at an RB with an old 90mm lens with all the DOF scales and all that extension, that beautiful bright screen, and no need for a right angle finder to do low angle and macro; she now owns an RB ($125 sans lens but w/WL finder and 1-120 back). Sadly the shutter in the lens was INOP and I'm looking for a working lens.

polyglot said:

Obviously you expect to shoot less with LF but then I expected to shoot less with MF than 35mm. While it's true, it's not very true and I can easily burn a few rolls wandering around in a day, particularly if there's some event on. I have a DSLR for snapshotty things, high-speed stuff (birding/sports) and affordable colour (not as good as a 6x7 chrome, but still pretty damn good) but if I didn't then I would be shooting a hell of a lot more MF film.

I think a similar relationship between MF and LF would exist - if you don't have some other means (like an MF system) of taking technically-basic but high quality shots then you will use the LF system for many more shots than is otherwise necessary. 90% of the time you don't need movements or the ability to enlarge past 20x24" so for that 90% of the time, IMHO it makes sense to use something like an MF system to take those shots. I'd like a 4x5" for the last 10%; it just hasn't entered my life yet

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Having a small camera handy is great, I'd recommend it and 35mm fills that roll well. I carry a holga too.

Forget the film cost here, it is irrelevant.

The thing about sheet film cameras (MF, LF, ULF) is that logistics makes high volume shooting really tough. It takes time to unload and reload 10 holders and they are heavy. 12 LF shots in a day is a full day in my world.

I actually bought a roll film back (220) for my 4x5 for higher volume shoots.

This is not to say that using the camera is a lot tougher than using an RB, you simply become much more picky about when the shutter drops so that you don't run out.

Actually, I was considering picking and choosing from KEH. Problem is, I have no benchmark to measure their stuff buy. I have a Canon 40D and a Nikon 7900 p&s - so fast and manageble is covered. I even have the support covered: 1-Berlebach and 1-Manfrotto. Both will handle anything from P&S to Telescopes complete with OTA's, mount, diagonal and camera. My scope OTA alone is 9 lbs., so weight/load capacity ain't an issue.

If I could get the photog classes I want to take, some of my questions about choosing gear would get answered. Trouble is the way the school schedules them (ARGH!!!). I live near Sacramento, CA.
l grew up in Chicago; I've lived in San Diego, Los Angeles and the San Francisco-Bay area.

I gotta tell you, Sacramento has got to be the weirdest market for just about everything (at least stuff I have an interest in). 9 times out of 10 - if you need it, it aint here. Which means you have to travel 2 hrs. to San Jose or San Francisco, or get it off the Internet.

Is there anyone in particular that I should talk to at KEH in putting together a RB/RZ kit?

I think one can rent on-line and have the cameras/lenses shipped each way. Maybe that's your next step? With no practical experience you really can't make an informed decision. There is a caveat to the rental issue though: You'll not have anything in hand long enough to really get a feel for them... but it may help.

IMHO, the DSLR-to-RZ67 step is a good one and not difficult. If you can operate your DSLR in M mode (manual exposure) then you'll be completely fine with the RZ. If you're like me, you can even use the DSLR as a spot-meter to choose your exposures for the RZ.

Renting could work if you have a nearby shop, but the problem is that a day's rental will buy you an RZ body. If there's one in a shop nearby, ask if you can bring in a roll of film (or buy one from the shop) and shoot a roll in the shop for free to see if you like the camera. That way, you get a feel for the camera and its controls and it costs you only a roll.

As for people at KEH, I use Dan Orchard (dorchard@keh.com) 'cos he's so helpful; which is not to say that any of the other sales people there aren't helpful. I've no idea if he knows the RZ system, I've just bought RZ bits via him. If you like, I can put together a basic list of KEH currently-in-stock bits for you, i.e. "what I (as an RZ owner) would buy if I were putting together a first-RZ kit". I'm not sure what benchmark you want for measuring their stuff against - if it says "E" it's awesome, if it says "BGN" then it's still awesome but it will have some irrelevant scuffs or paint chips. If it's broken, they'll take it back.

What questions about choosing gear do you have? Is there some particular misgiving you have or is it just a generalised "I don't know this is right" / "I don't know if I'll be able to use it" kind of issue?

Polyglot,

polyglot said:

Renting could work if you have a nearby shop, but the problem is that a day's rental will buy you an RZ body. If there's one in a shop nearby, ask if you can bring in a roll of film (or buy one from the shop) and shoot a roll in the shop for free to see if you like the camera.

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Nothing nearby. The closest camera store that I know of that has rentals (Keeble and Shuchat Photography) is in Palo Alto, CA. which as I pointed out in one of my earlier posts is in the San Francisco-bay area -- about 2 hrs away. I can check with one local store but I'm not hopeful.

Just generalized stuff. I think a list of your picks would be great. At least I would have a good sense of how someone that's intimately familiar with MF would put together a system. I can extrapolate from there

OK. Simplest way is to get an "Outfit" from KEH, making sure it has a 120 6x7 back (220 film not being very available). The 110/2.8 is the lens to start with: it is the smallest, fastest, it's very sharp and it's a normal field of view. Exmaples: Dead Link Removed and Dead Link Removed for BGN grade or about 25% more for EX (for those who like pretty cameras). I would recommend against getting a winder until you have a specific need for it, which is likely to be never.

You will also want a front cap and they're pretty much all 77mm for the RZ series. You can buy a generic off eBay or pretty much any one of these from KEH; they differ basically only in the writing on the front. The genuine Mamiya version costs more and if you want even nicer, the Nikon LC-77 is pretty good. You can get them cheaper off eBay, but might wear some extra postage.

You don't need body caps yet - they cover the front, back and top of the body when there is no lens, back or viewfinder attached. Since you'll have only one of each of those, you don't need the caps yet because the camera will always be assembled. When you do get them, Dead Link Removed, Dead Link Removed, Dead Link Removed, Dead Link Removed, and Dead Link Removed.

The view through the waist-level finder is reversed left/right. It's annoying but you get used to it and it's how most people work with the camera. Not a problem for fairly static shots, though handheld does take some getting used to because you will tend to yaw and roll the camera the wrong way. If you want to look through the back of the camera with a normal view, you need a Prism, in which case you should buy a metered prism: Dead Link Removed or Dead Link Removed. I'd recommend not getting one yet, but think about it for later if you need to pan during a shot or must shoot from eye-level. The metered prism also gives you effectively aperture-priority mode because you can get the prism to control the shutter speed. That means you don't need an external meter any more, though it's advisable for some purposes.

If you want a slightly longer lens for portraits, about like a 90mm on 135, get the 180/4.5. For example, Dead Link Removed, though $120 is a more normal price. If you buy that, don't forget to also buy a 77mm front cap and a lens rear-cap for it.

If you want a wider lens, well, that costs more. Worry about it later. The 50/4.5 ULD is meant to be very good, but it's >$500 for a decent copy. The non-ULD version isn't very good and I wouldn't bother with it: I sold mine after a month because it gave worse corner performance than anything I'd ever had in 35mm. The 65/4 M-LA is also meant to be good, example Dead Link Removed. Note that it is NOT the same as the 65/4 W or W-N; you want the M-LA which has a floating element.

If you don't want to buy the KEH outfit, try Dead Link Removed, Dead Link Removed, Dead Link Removed for a total of $411. Same price - the "outfit" listed previously is probably the exact same parts. If you can get the W-N version of the lens instead of the W or even the no-letters version, then do that; they're a slightly newer design. No idea if the quality is much different.

Polyglot,

Right mate!

RZ67+ WLF
110 f2.8
120 (6x7) flim back

lens and body caps -- no brainer

you're a tru blu, dinky di Aussie bloke.

Glad to be of service. Don't forget to grab a copy of the RZ manual and a nice big brick of film!

Ooh, one more thing. Get a couple of 4SR44 (lasts forever) or a few 4LR44 (cheaper, still lasts a long time) batteries from eBay or your local electronics merchant. Keep them in your camera bag.

Got it!