Lens Board Question (newbie)

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ron110n

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I am new and contemplating to buy a 4x5 Field Camera so pls. excuse my stupid questions.


What is a Copal 0 and Copal 1 lens board.

What is a recessed lens board.
What particular lens is used on a recessed lens board.


Thank you for your patience,

-Ron
 

nemo999

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Jul 20, 2008
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I am new and contemplating to buy a 4x5 Field Camera so pls. excuse my stupid questions.


What is a Copal 0 and Copal 1 lens board.

What is a recessed lens board.
What particular lens is used on a recessed lens board.


Thank you for your patience,

-Ron

All the flat panels used on a particular camera are in general the same. Copal 0 and 1 refers to shutter sizes, the lens-board holes required are 35 and 40 mm diameter respectively.

A recessed board is one where the center part is pressed in to bring it closer to the film. You need a recessed board to fit a wide-angle lens whose focal length is shorter than that intended by the camera maker. Most monorail cameras will take even very short lenses on a flat panel, a 4x5" field camera may need a recessed panel for, say, lenses 65 mm or shorter. Some more modern field cameras have interchangeable bellows and thus a shorter minimum extension.
 

Frank Szabo

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A Copal 0, 1, and 3 lensboard refers to the diameter of the hole in the board to accept the 0, 1, or 3 Copal shutter/lens assembly.

A recessed board is typically used with wide angle (short focal length) lenses the camera won't focus without some help. The part of the board that's inset (where the lens mounts) is sometimes 1 - 1.5 inches farther into the camera. Some cameras just won't compress far enough to focus a 75mm lens or so - that's approx 3 inches from the focal node of the lens (usually, this is where the iris is located inside the lens) to the focal plane on the ground glass.

By the way - the only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask.
 

Ralph Javins

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Good morning, Ron;

That is a good question. I have some along those lines also.

While most of the lenses with shutters that are available for my 4 by 5 seem to take a 35 mm, 39 mm, or 42 mm hole in the lens board for the lens mount, I have been surprised. The 90 mm f 8.0 Wide Angle received recently goes into a 34 mm hole. The use of a good caliper seems to be of great help here. My recent decision on lens board ordering is that it will follow the receipt of the new lens and an actual measurement of the shoulder on the lens mounting ring or the size of the threaded portion of the lens mounting barrel.

There may be tables published for various shutter mounting arrangements and what size they are supposed to be. I am waiting for them to actually arrive so that I can measure them and confirm exactly what size mount is needed.
 

Martin Aislabie

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Ron – I hope this helps

Shutters

All LF Lenses are split somewhere near the middle and so have a front and a rear portion.

The front portion sits outside the front of the camera and the rear portion sits inside the camera nestling in the bellows.

Almost all LF lenses have a shutter built in and this mounts to the front portion of the lens.

The Lens (both front and rear portions) and the Shutter start life as a matched assembly – to give accurate aperture scales.

The Lens/Shutter is a standard piece of info supplied with each lens – eg http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=165

Here is info is shown as “SHUTTER: C-O” = Copal (most common shutter manufacturer – in size 0 )

The front portion of the Lens and the Shutter are pushed through a mounting plate and secured by a retaining ring.

The rear Lens assembly then screws onto the rear of the whole assembly.

In order to not restrict the maximum aperture of the lens, a range of standard shutter internal diameter sizes are available – 0, 1 & 3

O is the smallest and 3 is the largest.

You therefore need to match a Lens/Shutter combination with a suitable Lens Board – hence the 0, 1 & 3 sized Lens Boards – to match the 0, 1 & 3 sized Shutters.

Typically short LF (less than say 150mm) use a Copal 0 shutter.

Intermediate lenses (say 180mm to 250mm) use a Copal1 and the big long lenses use a Copal3.

As a potential 5x4 user – most of the lenses you would use are likely to be Copal0 & 1.



Recessed Lens Boards

All things being equal, the distance between the Nodal Point (usually close to the shutter – and thence the Lens Board) and the Film Plane is the same as the Focal Length of the Lens – when focused at infinity.

LF cameras facilitate a range of Focal Length Lenses by Bellows extension.

However, Bellows have a physical minimal and maximum length – you can only scrunch them up and pull them out so far

This is also true for View Cameras and so they tend to be biased to what they do – cameras that can cope with very short lenses tend to have a shortish maximum extension.
Cameras with a large maximum extension tend to have a longer minimum extension.
(These two pieces of information are some of the most vital statistics you need to know when buying a LF Camera)

To assist with a long minimum extension, Camera manufacturers came up with the trick of recessing the position of the Shutter (hence Nodal Point) inside the body of the Camera Bellows.

They do this with a Lens Board with a stepped recess.

They come in different amounts of recess.

The problem with using a Recessed Lens Board is that the Lens Controls are mounted on the Shutter – which is tucked away inside the recess – hence difficult to reach and see clearly – particularly is you have thick fingers

The reverse is also available – where the Lens Board is stepped outwards – normally known as a “Top Hat”.

Lens Manufacturers also play their part.

Very short Focal Length Lenses (say 90mm & less) are designed to have their Nodal Position rearwards of the shutter in the lens – so the Cameras and Bellows don’t have to scrunch up as much.
This is in effect the opposite of a Telephoto Lens.

The information is given by Lens Manufacturers as the Flange Focal Distance (or flange back) – the distance between the rear surface of the lens shutter (the front surface of the lens board) to the Film Plane (Focal Plane)

When buying very short Focal Length lenses you need to know this distance – as you may otherwise not be able to focus such a lens at infinity with the LF Camera you own.



If you are buying second-hand and need to know will Lens A fit onto Camera X – just start a new thread here – APUG is a real mine of info


Sorry it is such a long reply, but as Frank said, “the only dumb question is the one you don’t ask” – and this wasn’t a dumb question.



Good luck

Martin
 

Nick Zentena

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Seikos shutters seem to be a little different then most modern shutters. Not a great deal. But other then that a #1 should fit a #1 etc. If it doesn't then the hole is wrong.
 
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ron110n

ron110n

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Oct 27, 2008
Messages
130
Location
Los Angeles
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35mm RF
Thank you Frank, Ralph, Martin, and Nick for your input. You all gave me a good head start in understanding a Large Format Camera. Frank and and especially Martin, thanks for being detail; so as Ralph with his measurements and Nicks Seiko Shutter tips.

I think this is the only forum exclusive to those who hasn't given-up film and I see tons of of good information here.

Thanks again guys!

-Ron
 
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