Leicaflex SL or SL2?

rpilottx · Jan 2, 2008

I just joined this forum so let me give you a little background information on myself so the question makes a bit more sense.

I started photography in high school in 1966 and paid for college as a photographer. I worked for a couple years as a photojournalist after college before joining the Marines.

Well for the last 32 years I have been a pilot for the US government in law enforcement and national security in one form or another and photography has been a hobby. I have been in and out of every major camera system and am presently using cameras from my college days (Nikon F and Leica M4). And I just retired so I will have lots of time for hobbies like photography and motorcycle travel. I am planning a bike trip from Alaska to TDF next year.

I have always wanted a Leicaflex SL or SL2 (again preeminent during the early 1970's when I was in college). I think manual cameras are the way to go and would use the TTL meter but it is certainly not essential.

I am not very familiar with the R system. I can talk for hours on the Nikon or M system. What should I look out for and what idiosyncracies are there with either the SL or SL2? And what lenses in the R system are outstanding and which ones should I avoid? Sherry at Golden Touch Leica sings the praises of the 60 and 100 macros. I would probably go with a couple of primes, say 24/28 and 90/100.

I owe myself a retirement gift and a reward for surviving 32 years in cutting edge aviation. And manual film cameras are super cheap so I am pretty sure I will be getting an SL/SL2 very soon.

Again, my knowledge of the R system is pretty thin so any comments would be useful. Thanks, Rich

ehparis · Jan 3, 2008

Both the SL and SL2 are built like tanks. The only real differences IMHO can be found in the features list. Does the SL2 have a feature you want which the SL doesn't have? Based on your overall comments I suspect that either will work equally well.

Be prepared for a CLA. The seals will be a bit old and you may need a lube job.

I stopped using Leica-R because of bum experiences with the R4. I liked the SL, SL2 and R3 all very much. There are few if any such things with bum experiences with Leitz R lenses.

One particular favorite lens of mine was the 19mm f2.8 Elmarit. I made some fantastic (for me) shots of everything from scenics to the nave of Notre Dame with one. A fun lens. I primarily used the Summicron R lenses in a variety of lengths and used the outstanding 180mm f3.4 Apo-Telyt, a fantastic lens, whenever possible....color and contrast like you wouldn't believe.

Because of the Leica R4 experiences I've been a Nikon shooter for the last 25-30 years but often wonder about my photography had it been done with Leica-R lenses during that period of time. Nikkors are great lenses. Leica R lenses are fantastic.

Mark Layne · Jan 3, 2008

I have both. The SL2 will meter lower light levels and has a separate battery to light the meter readout if necessary.
Mark - just Back from the Concorde Museum

iKlee · Jan 3, 2008

As Mark Layne said, SL2 have a better low lights meter, while SL may have an even better focus screen, though both appear to be extremely clear. I agree with epharis: both are tanks. I have used an SL2 for some years before to trade it with an M4. SL2 was my very first Leica since 1983 and I used with Elmarit Macro 60 and 180 ApoTelyt. A real joy. I have to say that I still use an R4s with no problem (yes, you're right: it is never a clever thing to say).
If you have the opportunity try for yourself, take in your hands both cameras and look through the viewfinder, focus some subjects in order to realize what you prefer. Anyway, after a good CLA, both are great camera inded and, of course, Leitz/Leica lenses are wonderful.
Enjoy!

frank · Jan 3, 2008

Rich, have you chosen a motorcycle for your trip? Are you going old-school vintage BMW, or modern high tech?

rpilottx · Jan 3, 2008

Frank: I am in El Paso, Texas and the closest BMW dealer is 250 miles away. I sold a K1200GT last year for this reason. I am a fan of the GS series but the new ones are too complicated and have a few issues (drive shaft primarily) which makes me think they are not good out in a third world country (have many stories from riding friends).

Anyway, I am lucky and live 35 miles from the only KTM Adventure dealer in New Mexico. My 2005 KTM 950 is closing in on 27000 maintenance free miles and is my weapon of choice. I had a thumper for awhile but they leave something in the highway performance. The KTM is outstanding off road for such a large bike and we have seen triple digits on gravel roads in the area (it is derived from the Paris/Dakar racers).

Anyway, I really like the simplicity of carbs, chain and non ABS brakes. I rode to Alaska three years ago on a Suzuki VStrom but the KTM is superior on secondary roads due to its suspension.

I am lucky that my wife enjoys riding her own machine even if it is a cruiser. We are talking El Paso to Nova Scotia next summer. I have a friend who wants to go to Prudoe Bay in August and then I will continue south.

As much as I like my Nikon F or lust after a Leica SLR, I am thinking M4 with 35 and 90, an incident meter and lots of film. My daughter is trying to talk me into digital (she is 17 and planning on photojournalism at the University of Missouri next year) but I think I am too much of a dinosaur. And I am trying to talk her into trying my M4 or F so she will know how to use a camera which does not have an "Auto" setting. However, I just ordered a Canon G9 to play with. It was only $450 and will let me play with raw files.

I only discovered this site and RFF about a month ago. Now that I am retired and income remains the same, I have time to reignite old interests. And perhaps learn some new skills like scanning negatives and printing digitally without the chemical mess associated with a darkroom. Rich 915 588 5054

frank · Jan 3, 2008

That's probably a wise motorcycle choice, Rich. I was thinking vintage BMW because of your camera choice. It would have been consistent 1970's German engineering. (1976 R90/6 for me)

Ronald Moravec · Jan 4, 2008

Sherry is right on the lenses, 60 and 100 APO. The new 28 is very nice.

You will need lenses that are two cam and I don`t think ROM chip lenses will work at all on SL`s. I need an expert here.

The new 50 1.4 is very good also as is the 90 APO but these are probably all ROM chip.

24`s and 16 will not go on a SL. The SL2 has more mirror clearance due to a swing back design so it will take the 24 which is not the world greatest lens. The best 35 is the 35 2.8 with 55mm filters.

iKlee · Jan 4, 2008

Actually I am one of those vintage guy you're talking about. Still use a BMW R100 (1980) that was with me during a USA coast to coast and back in New York in 1983. It was a great trip around northern States going and central coming back. We had a southern trip plan but a storm conced us to change.Then we drove around asian side of Turkey and Europe at all. No electronic, problem. With us was a friend of mine with his BMW GS 80, then a GS Paris-Dakar Edition.
Very good you're still doing motorcycle trips, Rich!

rpilottx · Jan 4, 2008

Well, I got back into motorcycling after a 20 year hiatus. And have used my bikes as my main form of transportation for the last 3 years or so. The weather in El Paso makes it possible to use them year round.

And the original air cooled Beemers are considerably more reliable then the new bikes with electronics and the paralever suspension/shaft drive. I never realized before that the same thing can be said about cameras-old manual vs new auto everything.

Nick Merritt · Jan 4, 2008

Rich, I have both the SL and SL2 and I agree about the SL2 features described above. The SL2 also has a hot shoe, if that makes a difference to you. The film advance lever on the SL2 is a little better designed so the throw is not as long. Both have semi-spot metering only, which can take a bit of getting used to if you're more used to center-weighted or something like matrix.

The SL2 is harder to come by, so you'll pay more for one. Also, for some reason the SL2 shutter has a tendency to not work at the higher speeds, like 1/2000 and maybe down to 1/500. This is fixable but apparently not curable. Both cameras have a problem with desilvering of the pentaprism, so check that out. Don Goldberg (DAG Camera) has resilvered prisms if that's necessary.

I have several of the lenses, mostly the 2-cam ones that are contemporaneous with these cameras. The 3-cam lenses will work as well. (The 1-cam lenses won't meter; they were for the original non-TTL Leicaflex.) All these lenses have been redesigned along the way, so the 2-cam versions are not the latest designs, either optically or mechanically. But I have no complaints about any of them, other than to point out that these earlier designs take series filters rather than regular filter sizes. If you use filters a lot, this is a consideration -- Leica series filters are out there, but expensive. Also, these cameras' meters require a circular polarizer.

I have the 35/2.8, 50/2, 50/1.4, 60/2.8 macro, 90/2.8, 135/2.8, and 180/4. As you can see, none is what I'd call exotic. I've yet to use the macro, but I find the 50s and the 90 are particularly good. The 180 (Elmar) is a nice compact lens, so may be good for your travels.

The best site I have seen, bar none, on the Leica SLRs, especially the pre-R8 models, is wildlightphoto.com, maintained by a wildlife and nature photographer named Doug Herr. It's now by subscription only, I believe, but his impressions of the cameras and lenses, with sample photos, is really helpful.

iKlee · Jan 4, 2008

Doug's site is still freely usable. I concur, its a wonderful place to visit: www.wildlightphoto.com and Doug is a very friendly man.

Nick Merritt · Jan 4, 2008

Well, yes, Doug's site is accessible. However, the Leica technical information is not -- I just checked and there's no way to get to it. I think you have to contact him and subscribe to it.

iKlee · Jan 4, 2008

Nick,
you simply have to ask to register, no fee is due.

Mark Layne · Jan 4, 2008

rpilottx said:
Frank: I am in El Paso, Texas and the closest BMW dealer is 250 miles away. I sold a K1200GT last year for this reason. I am a fan of the GS series but the new ones are too complicated and have a few issues (drive shaft primarily) which makes me think they are not good out in a third world country (have many stories from riding friends).

Anyway, I am lucky and live 35 miles from the only KTM Adventure dealer in New Mexico. My 2005 KTM 950 is closing in on 27000 maintenance free miles and is my weapon of choice. I had a thumper for awhile but they leave something in the highway performance. The KTM is outstanding off road for such a large bike and we have seen triple digits on gravel roads in the area (it is derived from the Paris/Dakar racers).

Anyway, I really like the simplicity of carbs, chain and non ABS brakes. I rode to Alaska three years ago on a Suzuki VStrom but the KTM is superior on secondary roads due to its suspension.

I am lucky that my wife enjoys riding her own machine even if it is a cruiser. We are talking El Paso to Nova Scotia next summer. I have a friend who wants to go to Prudoe Bay in August and then I will continue south.

As much as I like my Nikon F or lust after a Leica SLR, I am thinking M4 with 35 and 90, an incident meter and lots of film. My daughter is trying to talk me into digital (she is 17 and planning on photojournalism at the University of Missouri next year) but I think I am too much of a dinosaur. And I am trying to talk her into trying my M4 or F so she will know how to use a camera which does not have an "Auto" setting. However, I just ordered a Canon G9 to play with. It was only $450 and will let me play with raw files.

I only discovered this site and RFF about a month ago. Now that I am retired and income remains the same, I have time to reignite old interests. And perhaps learn some new skills like scanning negatives and printing digitally without the chemical mess associated with a darkroom. Rich 915 588 5054

Well if you do plan on Nova Scotia let me know ahead and I'll send you a copy of 'The Motorcycle Guide to Nova Scotia.'

If ever in Barbados visit the Concorde in it's Museum. One of those things almost scared me off the edge of a cliff on takeoff once.
Mark

Leicaflex SL or SL2?

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