Leica universal viewfinder ???

Hassasin · Jan 24, 2024

On the issue of the finders for Leica LTM bodies, is the universal one the way to go (which one, I hear VIOOH is the one) or are the lens specific ones that much better? I imagine a dedicated finder is superior in what it shows, but it's having one in the bag or more than two. I'm planning to add lenses 35/90/135 and possibly a 28 (which would require an attachment for the VIOOH)

Ballinderry-Michael · Jan 24, 2024

While the VIOOH is handy if all you want is basic coverage information, the image it gives you is progressively smaller as you move from 3.5 to 13.5cm. The brightline finders all give you a fairly decent-sized image, which helps with composition as well as coverage. The VIOOH is also a knobbly beast wich needs to be kept away from other stuff in the bag.

I even like to have a 5cm brightline finder along with the others: I actually need it for my MDa and Bessa-T and it's better than the built-in finder on the Barnacks.

chriscrawfordphoto · Jan 24, 2024

I have a VIOOH, a Light Lens Lab copy of the Leica SBLOO (35mm brightline), a Leica SBOOI (50mm brightline), a Leica SGVOO (90mm brightline), and a Leica SHOOC (135mm brightline). I also have a Cosina Voigtlander 21/25mm brightline finder. Here are my thoughts on them:

• The VIOOH is great for 35mm and 50mm lenses. For 90 and (especially) 135mm, its nearly unusable because the image in the finder is so tiny. The VIOOH works by cropping the view to match the lens focal length. The 35mm view is big, and the 50mm view is big enough, but the longer focal lengths are too small to accurately compose in my experience. The VIOOH has a parallax adjustment that is quite accurate. Because 35mm and 50mm are my most-used lenses on my screwmount Leicas, it is usually in the shoe of my IIIf Red Dial.

• Light Lens Lab SBLOO Copy (35mm): I have never used the original Leica version to compare it with, but I don't really like it. The framelines are hard to see all at once, and are not as bright as on the Leica and Cosina Voigtlander brightline finders. There's a dashed line that indicates parallax at close focus.

• Leica SBOOI (50mm): Bright, easy to see framelines, nice finder. Parallax at close focus is indicated by a dashed line.

• Leica SGVOO (90mm) and SHOOC (135mm) these look externally identical; the large black side is actually the side you put your eye to, which confuses some. The framelines are large and there are two sets of framelines, one for infinity and one for close focus. These are not for parallax; they're because the image area becomes smaller at close focus! Parallax correction is done by turning a knurled ring to the focused distance, which is more accurate than the dashed line across the top of the image area used by the 35mm and 50mm brightline finders and similar to the system used on the VIOOH.

My recommendations: If you shoot with 90mm or 135mm, get the brightline finders for those lenses. If you shoot 35mm only, I actually like the VIOOH better than the 35mm brightline finder I have. If you shoot 50mm only, get the 50mm brightline, and if you shoot both 35 and 50, get the VIOOH.

Hassasin · Jan 24, 2024

chriscrawfordphoto said:
I have a VIOOH, a Light Lens Lab copy of the Leica SBLOO (35mm brightline), a Leica SBOOI (50mm brightline), a Leica SGVOO (90mm brightline), and a Leica SHOOC (135mm brightline). I also have a Cosina Voigtlander 21/25mm brightline finder. Here are my thoughts on them:

• The VIOOH is great for 35mm and 50mm lenses. For 90 and (especially) 135mm, its nearly unusable because the image in the finder is so tiny. The VIOOH works by cropping the view to match the lens focal length. The 35mm view is big, and the 50mm view is big enough, but the longer focal lengths are too small to accurately compose in my experience. The VIOOH has a parallax adjustment that is quite accurate. Because 35mm and 50mm are my most-used lenses on my screwmount Leicas, it is usually in the shoe of my IIIf Red Dial.

• Light Lens Lab SBLOO Copy (35mm): I have never used the original Leica version to compare it with, but I don't really like it. The framelines are hard to see all at once, and are not as bright as on the Leica and Cosina Voigtlander brightline finders. There's a dashed line that indicates parallax at close focus.

• Leica SBOOI (50mm): Bright, easy to see framelines, nice finder. Parallax at close focus is indicated by a dashed line.

• Leica SGVOO (90mm) and SHOOC (135mm) these look externally identical; the large black side is actually the side you put your eye to, which confuses some. The framelines are large and there are two sets of framelines, one for infinity and one for close focus. These are not for parallax; they're because the image area becomes smaller at close focus! Parallax correction is done by turning a knurled ring to the focused distance, which is more accurate than the dashed line across the top of the image area used by the 35mm and 50mm brightline finders and similar to the system used on the VIOOH.

My recommendations: If you shoot with 90mm or 135mm, get the brightline finders for those lenses. If you shoot 35mm only, I actually like the VIOOH better than the 35mm brightline finder I have. If you shoot 50mm only, get the 50mm brightline, and if you shoot both 35 and 50, get the VIOOH.

Great insight, thanks.

Don_ih · Jan 24, 2024

The 90 is a very nice lens - but it's also about as large as is practical with a thread-mount Leica. The 135 is one of the cheapest Leica lenses to buy because almost no one uses it. Ever. It's just too huge and awkward and, like mentioned above, the view given in the viooh is minuscule. The 90 can be roughly composed using the rangefinder window (if you happen to have forgotten your universal finder - which I almost always have done). I almost always use 50mm lenses, though.

A few years ago, the 90 and 135 ltm lenses sold on ebay for less than $100 each on a routine basis. They seem to be much more expensive, now. Unless you want to use the camera on a tripod, I'd advise not getting the 135. On the bright side, though, it's easy to get one that looks like it just came out of the factory....

Mr Flibble · Jan 24, 2024

Yeah, the VIOOH and VIDOM aren't zoom finders, they just resize the mask and become more squinty-er...
And the VIOOH and VIDOM sometimes suffer from haze forming between the prisms.
The VIOOH + the TUVOO 28mm attachment makes it a pretty bulky finder.

As Chris said, the brightline finders like the SBOOI are great, but yeah, you'll need one for every focal length.

Alternatively for the vintage look there is the Zeiss/KMZ turret finders.

Not sure how things compare to the Nikon/ Nippon Kogaku varifocal finders

M-88 · Jan 24, 2024

I just use a Soviet KMZ copy of the turret viewfinder. It's not as sleek as Leica, but each frame is consistently large because nothing is cropped. I use it for a 135 mm lens, so this is important. Otherwise, it switches between 28, 35, 50, 85 and 135 mm.

Wide angle views of this viewfinder have a bit of geometric distortion, by the way.

GregY · Jan 24, 2024

H, Barnack Leicas are such small, fine-handling cameras, I prefer to use individual finders, and avoid the size/bulk of the universal finders. Although I own 21,28,25,50 finders....i don't carry all the lenses or the finders at the same time. It's not a big inconvenience to carry the small leather case or two containing finders. The SBLOO BTW is superb.

Hassasin · Jan 24, 2024

GregY said:
H, Barnack Leicas are such small, fine-handling cameras, I prefer to use individual finders, and avoid the size/bulk of the universal finders. Although I own 21,28,25,50 finders....i don't carry all the lenses or the finders at the same time. It's not a big inconvenience to carry the small leather case or two containing finders. The SBLOO BTW is superb.

Turned out my IIIc is also coming with 135 Culminar lens AND Leitz's bright line 135 finder, so that's a start. Even if that 135 will prove a dud, it appears smaller than Leitz Hektor 135 and maybe will get some use. Plus I'll have the proper finder and maybe get the Hektor eventually.

GregY · Jan 24, 2024

Hassasin said:
Turned out my IIIc is also coming with 135 Culminar lens AND Leitz's bright line 135 finder, so that's a start. Even if that 135 will prove a dud, it appears smaller than Leitz Hektor 135 and maybe will get some use. Plus I'll have the proper finder and maybe get the Hektor eventually.

Leitz individual finders are wonderful. I bought a Voigtlander 21 f4 once....just because it came with a black Leitz metal finder at a very very low price.

cliveh · Jan 24, 2024

VIDOM

Hassasin · Jan 24, 2024

cliveh said:
VIDOM

VIDOM is a true zooming finder?

Nicholas Lindan · Jan 24, 2024

Hassasin said:
VIDOM is a true zooming finder?

No, it is not. You see a 35mm view that is then masked for 50/90/135. By the time it gets to 135 things are rather squinty. It is, however, the cheapest 35mm frame Leica finder around. The Ruskis made a finder like this with a turret on the front, I used to have one but it has vanished into rather thick air.

Hassasin · Jan 24, 2024

Nicholas Lindan said:
No, it is not. You see a 35mm view that is then masked for 50/90/135. By the time it gets to 135 things are rather squinty. It is, however, the cheapest 35mm frame Leica finder around. The Ruskis made a finder like this with a turret on the front, I used to have one but it has vanished into rather thick air.

Thanks, I thought VIDOM was different, I read image is side reversed on it too (like TLR).

But given what's been said already, I'm looking into bright line finders. Already have the 135 coming with kit, so just a matter of finding whatever else I'll need.

Don_ih · Jan 24, 2024

cliveh said:
VIDOM

I used my vidom finder today, since it's the only one that fits in the shoe of the camera I was using. I know I previously said it was crap, but I have to agree that the disorientation of the reversed view forces you to consider what you're doing a bit more.

guangong · Jan 28, 2024

Ballinderry-Michael said:
While the VIOOH is handy if all you want is basic coverage information, the image it gives you is progressively smaller as you move from 3.5 to 13.5cm. The brightline finders all give you a fairly decent-sized image, which helps with composition as well as coverage. The VIOOH is also a knobbly beast wich needs to be kept away from other stuff in the bag.

I even like to have a 5cm brightline finder along with the others: I actually need it for my MDa and Bessa-T and it's better than the built-in finder on the Barnacks.

My thoughts exactly. Although, if I intend to use several focal lengths on an outing, the VIOOH comes in handy. I also frequently use the 50 finder with ltm Leicas.

Leica universal viewfinder ???

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