Leica: Unable to Identify Model

[kb244]

Have here an odd-duck of a "Leica" branded screwmount camera. But theres some discreperencies.

- I can't find this model anywhere in the book or the McKeown's camera guide
- The top while it looks like a rangefinder but has no guts, its merely a cover with a viewfinder window, nothing more.
- Even though the top looks like it has a rangefinder, there is absolutely no way that it could be as I mentioned above, and because on the lens mount theres no rangefinder coupling what-so-ever.
- Theres no shutter curtain nor looks like was ever designed with one (thus why the lens is a leaf shutter style).
- There is no serial number at all on the body.
- Frame counter does work tho it doesnt 'stop' you each frame kind of a click feeling
- It doesn't like a standard 35mm cartridge you can get it in 'most of the way' but not enough to close the bottom. But it will rewind and everything

The bottom plate has "Germany" and "Open" "Close" by the dial. upon taking the bottom off there is the clasic loading instructions in german, english, french and spanish (I've only known them to have either only german, or english and german).

There is a copper clip to apply preasure to the metal preasure plate. On top of the camera it says Leica in the classic scripture, and then Ernst Leitz Wetzlar D.R.P. under it like most did.

The lens is collapsible and has a rangefinder coupling. Lens around center says 50mm Bausch & Lomb-Zeiss Tessar Series 1c Pat Feb 24 1903 1894921 and appears to have a compound shutter with the serial 1536520, three shutter modes M, B, T, shutter speeds from 1 to 300, and aperture range from 3.5 to 16.

It's really quite an odd duck.

 

[Jim Jones]

It looks like the butcher job people sometimes had to do to improvise a functional camera when the real thing was unavailable or too expensive. For example, during WWII most American photographic production was diverted to the war effort, and imports dried up.

 

[elekm]

I agree: A one-off hack job to allow the use of an old lens. Might have been done by a machinist. Might have been done in someone's garage workshop. Guess we'll never know.

Is this the same camera that was being shown on rangefinderforum.com?

 

[copake_ham]

From the body, it has to be post-WWII as "DRP" was East Germany.

Maybe a "fake" for the eBay crowd? There were a lot of them going around about two years ago or so.

 

[Neanderman]

From the body, it has to be post-WWII as "DRP" was East Germany.

Actually, I think in this case D.R.P stands for Deutsches Reich Patentschrift, a designation used from 1871 to 1945.

 

[elekm]

You might want to pose this question to the Leica Users Group (I've heard they sometimes are less than friendly to newcomers) or the participants at photo.net.

They might have some thoughts regarding this camera. But I still think it's a hack job to allow the camera to use this lens, which has an integrated leaf shutter.

 

[jstraw]

I'd really like to slap Jerome S Miller senseless.

 

[Roger Hicks]

During WW2 a lot of dummies and spares were made up into usable cameras, sometimes even by overseas branches of Leitz: in the UK there are several known 'Mortimer Street specials' named after the then headquarters of Leitz in London. This looks like something similar, using spare parts -- hence the lack of an engraved number, etc. -- plus whatever else was available.

In the days I first became interested in Leicas, they were still regarded as 'old cameras', not as objects of veneration, and by the look of it, this dates from at least two decades before then.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[kb244]

A Leitz Expert in Germany got back with a friend of mine and informed us that it's an experimental model manufactured by Leitz NY Agency. I also sent back this picture as the other stuff the camera came with looked rather cool next to it.

Chances are it might get sold when the 'expert' gets back with us.

PS: the lens on the front of that tube is a Dagor Goerz 7in f/6.3

 

[Anscojohn]

The lens indicates it started out as a Model B, Compur Leica. A fairly rare, early Model, before Leitz went to the focal plane shutter.

 

[kb244]

The lens indicates it started out as a Model B, Compur Leica. A fairly rare, early Model, before Leitz went to the focal plane shutter.

Cept I Don't think the Compurs had Lugs on the side, however seeing as the camera been modified in other ways, I can't exactly dispute the possibility that the Lugs were also added at a later time.

 

[kb244]

Though you mentioned B Compur, that would explain all the excess screw holes on top if you take off the III style viewfinder attachment. The holes seem consistent with what would have been on top of a Compur.

 

[Roger Hicks]

The lens indicates it started out as a Model B, Compur Leica. A fairly rare, early Model, before Leitz went to the focal plane shutter.

Not really. Compur Leicas had Leitz lenses, not B&L. The Model B suggests (accurately) that there was a Model A, which did indeed have a focal plane shutter and is much more common: 'fairly rare' is a wild understatement for the Model B. The original dialset Compur (not Compound) B was designed to allow slow speeds, which Leicas didn't have until the III, and allegedly also as a lower-cost option.

The base on the camera illustrated also has the big locating pin, whereas Compur Leicas had the small locating pin, and why would anyone put a II rangefinder housing onto a Compur? There's a blocked-off slow-speed dial, which marks it as a III or later (IIIa, IIIb, not IIIc with the different chassis) though the top housing is II or III(no eyesight adjustment on the eyepiece). And the lens mount is interchangeable, whereas the Compur was fixed. Then there's the wind-on and counter... This is a 'bitza', whether for fun or because 35mm cameras were hard to come by during WW2. It's possible that it was 'experimental' but this sounds pretty generous to me.

Cheers,

Roger