Leica Sold 500 Film Cameras Worldwide in 2012

Mick Fagan

Subscriber
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
4,421
Location
Melbourne Au
Format
Multi Format
In todays Age Newspaper (Melbourne) there is a news item about a new resurgence of film photography. I read it in the newspaper over breakfast, then checked it out online later, which had at least one more picture.

Also in the article, which highlights a film only photoshop in Fitzroy (Melbourne suburb) there is also a spiel about Leica film cameras and about their new large camera shop.

The managing director, Ryan Williams, says that in 2012, Leica’s production dropped to only 500 film cameras a year globally, but 12 years later the company sells that number of film cameras in Australia alone.

I was staggered by that statement. It certainly gives one an idea of just how dire things were, and in some ways, still are.

I'm not sure if anyone can see this link as I have access to the electronic version of the newspaper, but I'll give it to you anyway.

Developing story: Film photography back in the frame, blurry snaps and all

Once thought buried by digital cameras and mobile phones, film photography is enjoying a resurgence – driven by younger consumers.
www.theage.com.au
 

GregY

Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Messages
3,345
Location
Alberta
Format
Large Format
looks interesting....unfortunately there is a pay-wall
 

4season

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
1,983
Format
Plastic Cameras
The article is paywalled for me too.

From roughly 2007-2011, I recall Leica M interest being especially intense. If the arrival of the M8 caused a stir, the M9 caused a storm, breaking into luxury/lifestyle media as the gadget du jour. Leica and Hermes collaborated to produce an especially posh special edition. For a time in the USA, getting ahold of a new Noctilux or Summilux lens was all but impossible, and if you did manage to get one, you could immediately resell it for a $1K+ profit. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Leica diverted resources away from film camera production and directed them towards digital M and lens production.

It may have just been a coincidence, but I had the sense that the party ended abruptly when the PRC government cracked down on bribery & lavish gift-giving, because around that time (2011-12), I felt as if a bubble was starting to slowly deflate.
 

mshchem

Subscriber
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Messages
14,662
Location
Iowa City, Iowa USA
Format
Medium Format
It's all fascinating. The used camera market is very strong as well. I love analog photography. I would love to see an affordable, nice new 35mm SLR. Not sure how that could happen, but who knows.
 

loccdor

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 12, 2024
Messages
1,503
Location
USA
Format
Multi Format
A young couple asked me to take their picture when I was hiking a few months ago. The girl was using a 35mm point and shoot. She saw my Mamiya 645 and seemed intimidated by it, she said it was cooler than hers. I told her it was cool that she was using film and wished her a good day.

2010-2023, I don't think I encountered a single film photographer when I was out shooting. They all had digital.
 

guangong

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Messages
3,589
Format
Medium Format
In movies of the 1930s and 1940s, a Leica, or especially a Contax, was a prop used to indicate a character belonged to the moneyed class.
 

xkaes

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
4,791
Location
Colorado
Format
Multi Format
I went to a wedding reception a couple of years ago, with people from across the Country. Much to my surprise, there were more people taking pictures with film cameras than with anything else. There was even an old Canon and Pentax SLR. Everyone was wondering what my Yashica Samurai was!!!
 

Agulliver

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
3,566
Location
Luton, United Kingdom
Format
Multi Format
When I started shooting 35mm and 120 film at a small jazz & blues club in early 2019 people thought I was mad, including the then owner of the club who himself is a photographer who used to have a full darkroom. Today I am the resident photographer there and am hoping to hold an exhibition of my gig photography early next year. There have been up to four people at the club on any given night shooting film while artists, promoters and the club itself have used my photos. I've been approached by a musician who is somewhat well known and told "You are a legendary gig photographer. People talk about what you're doing here."

The attitude to seeing someone with a film camera has tangibly changed in recent years. I hear of kids in their late teens asking for film cameras as Christmas presents. One friend's son currently at uni is studying film photography and coming to me for advice. A decade ago it was assumed that my film cameras were not loaded or that I was some sort of madman not to be approached.

And I only do this for fun on weekends. I can imagine that pro's have seen more of an attitude change than I have.
 

Henning Serger

Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
2,192
Format
Multi Format

Hello Mick,

Mr. Williams is probably referring to an interview of Andreas Kaufmann (main share holder of Leica Camera), which was published some months ago. In that interview he mentioned that number. But I think A. Kaufmann most probably referred to the production number of only one model (probably the MP), but the M7 was also in production at that time.
Because over all these years I had very detailed talks at every Photokina fair with the responsible production manager of the M system. And he told me that around that time Leica already saw increasing demand. Therefore they introduced a third film M camera - the M-A - in 2014.
I doubt that they would have done that if the overall / total sales in 2012 would have been only 500 units.


Mick Fagan said:
but 12 years later the company sells that number of film cameras in Australia alone.
Click to expand...

Which is a bit astonishing: In that above mentioned interview with A. Kaufman he said that in 2023 almost about 15,000 M type cameras were produced, and about 5,000 units of them being film M cameras (MP, M6 and M-A).
So if in Australia, with a population of only about 26 million people, currently 10% of all the film M cameras are sold, that means
- either that Australia is a very strong and important market for film M cameras
- or that in 2024 the demand and production for film M cameras has further increased very significantly compared to 2023.

Mick Fagan said:
I was staggered by that statement. It certainly gives one an idea of just how dire things were, and in some ways, still are.
Click to expand...

Don't forget that in 2014 Eastman Kodak seriously considered the stop of the total film production. That was publicly explained some time later by the EK CEO of that time.
Interestingly in 2014 the demand for colour film hit the bottom. In 2015 began the increase and upward trend.

Best regards,
Henning
 
Last edited:
OP
OP

Mick Fagan

Subscriber
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
4,421
Location
Melbourne Au
Format
Multi Format
Henning, very interesting comments, it certainly makes one wonder if the remarks about Leica film camera sales in Australia by their Australian managing director, are part hyperbole, and part selectively chosen, or misinterpreted statistics.

And yes, it certainly is a huge number of very expensive film cameras for a country of 27 million people (March 2024 official Australian government figure)

Mick.
 

Henning Serger

Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
2,192
Format
Multi Format

Hello Mick,

when I wrote "astonishing" I meant it in the way of a positive surprise. Not that it is completely unrealistic.
There are meanwhile three of the big Leica Camera Stores in Australia, one in Sydney, and two in Melbourne. This worldwide run Leica Camera Store concept with their own stores has been very successful for Leica. Therefore they are slowly but steadily increasing the number of their big stores globally, and more of them are now even including photo galleries.

And Australia also has several popular film youtube channels, and at least two of them are very enthusiastic about using Leica film M cameras.
Therefore 500 new film M cameras being sold p.a. in Australia is an excellent result concerning the local market size, and in comparison to other, bigger markets. But it is not a total unrealistic number.

I general the popularity of film based Leica M models has increased dramatically in the last six years. Which is very clearly seen both on the used market, and Leica's production numbers.

Best regards,
Henning
 
OP
OP

Mick Fagan

Subscriber
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
4,421
Location
Melbourne Au
Format
Multi Format
Henning, thanks for clarification regarding your, "astonishing" reference; I did misread your remarks somewhat.

I will endeavour to visit either or both of the Melbourne stores in due course, as I visit both locations a few times each year.
 
  • Don_ih
  • Deleted
  • Reason: No one has a sense of humour

Henning Serger

Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
2,192
Format
Multi Format
Don_ih said:
Australia has 3 Leica stores for 27 million people. Canada has zero Leica stores for 39 million people. I imagine 5 or 6 new Leica M film cameras are sold here a year.
Click to expand...

Leica cameras are not sold exclusively via Leica's own stores, but also by hundreds of independent camera stores worldwide.
Please have a look at the Leica home page: There is a dedicated section with a store locator, where you can easily find all stores in your country which offer Leica products. For Canada there are more than 40 different stores listed which offer Leica products. Therefore it should not be a problem for a Canadian to buy a (film) Leica.
And I would not be surprised if in the near future also 1-2 Leica owned Leica Gallery stores will open e.g. in the GTA metropol region and in BC / Vancouver.

Best regards,
Henning
 
  • Don_ih
  • Deleted
  • Reason: also not worth bothering with
  • JParker
  • Deleted
  • Reason: Cleanup
  • Don_ih
  • Deleted
  • Reason: not worth a response

JParker

Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Messages
243
Location
European in Australia
Format
Multi Format

Correct. And already mentioned here in this thread in posting no. 12.
With that production - and maybe / hopefully - a successor of the wonderful Leica M7 additionally in the future, and with the further increasing number of new excellent lenses for the M system by Leica, Voigtländer, Zeiss and others for the M system, film photography with the M system is in a very healthy condition. It is back. And that is very good for all film photographers.
 
Last edited:
  • JParker
  • Deleted
  • Reason: Cleanup
  • Don_ih
  • Deleted
  • Reason: Cleanup

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
50,364
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format
Only 50 in one year is dismal; it is surprising that they did not discontinue manufacturing. All of us, even the ones that do not use Leicas, should be happy that production was not ended.
 

Molli

Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
1,008
Location
Victoria, Australia
Format
Multi Format
It's interesting to see The Age come so late to this story. I wonder if they'd have noticed had it not been for the opening of a perceived luxury brand camera store? Walkens opened in Fitzroy pre-pandemic five years ago, as did Film Never Die. The ABC (Australian Broadcasting, not the American one) and The Guardian have been taking in turns writing "Film's Revival" articles every six months or so for the past decade. At least The Guardian highlighted interesting and new/old methods in their more recent stories.

The last one from the ABC was as bad as this piece in basically labelling film use as "craptastic" with their assumption of blurry, eyes closed, nuclearised flash photos. The ABC interviewed a lab owner who made a point of saying that "kids these days don't want their negatives back" and one is left wondering why on earth he didn't explain why people should absolutely want to keep a hold of their negatives. To say no one wants prints would also completely miss the popularity and point of Instax.

As an aside, in referencing vinyl records, they might also have mentioned that Zenith Records had to move to larger premises to meet demand and Program Records opened the first new vinyl press in Australia in 2021. Both Melbourne stories that The Age didn't cover - although they positively crowed over record stores closing down.

I'm right there back with Nicole in the Australian forum who stated a long time ago "We want more than just chicken or beef,"* talking of the lack of media coverage of the Arts in this country.

(* https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/we-want-more-than-just-chicken-or-beef.54362/ )

There was a push a couple of years ago to try and get an arts segment as part of the ABC News, and one more recently to cover Science.
I was watching the French News on SBS a while ago and they had a report on a new play being discussed by a theatre critic, a philosopher and a feminist. Even filtered through my poor French, it was brilliant.
In Australia, we get people reporting on an upsurge in artistic expression through the lense of corporate profit and a dense veil of ignorance if at all.

Yes, I know, I'm too wordy. Rant over.
 

Henning Serger

Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
2,192
Format
Multi Format

Yes.
And I can completely agree that a successor for the very flexible and more versatile M7 - a M7-N (for New) - would be the perfect completion for the Leica film M camera line. Then ceratainly almost every film M user would find the for him optimal film M.

A M7-N with the additional feature of aperture priority, a faster shutter with 1/4000s (the main parts of the shutter unit could most probably be taken from the M11, so reduced development and production costs) and TTL flash metering would be perfect for situations in which faster reactions are needed. And the 1/4000s would be very helpful for subject isolation at wide apertures, too.
For example fast shutter speeds are a real blessing for outdoor portraits and fashion, I am using that regularly.

One additional info concerning the production numbers:
The (first) Leica M6 was produced from 1984 until 2002. In that 18-year time span about 175,000 units of that model were produced.
So on yearly average almost 10,000 cameras p.a..
The current models M6 (improved), MP and M-A are technically almost identical. It is a kind of "the same person / character in three different dresses" .
Last year these three models were produced in a total number of about 5,000 units.
That is (already again) about 50% of the former M6 yearly avarage production volume of the film era.
Quite impressive .
And if this momentum and demand increase of the last years continues.........

Best regards,
Henning
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…