Leica Screwmount Suggestions

Jersey Vic · Sep 13, 2007

Feds are smaller and more IIIa like, Zorkis are bigger and easier to focus and brighter. Both are reliable for the $$. I've used both pretty extensively.

IIIx's are easy to use but film loading is slow (akin to a Rollei compared to a Bessa or an M but hen again, you do get 36 images.

If getting a Leica, check the curtains for cracking (especially on f's) or tears in the stitching (a's) and the slow speeds.

Xmas · Sep 13, 2007

dslater said:
According to what I've read at cameraquest.com, many Canon P 's have problems with flare in the viewfinder which is difficult to correct. What do you think of the Canon 7?

The Canon 7 have meters which may mean more maintenance ($) the cadding may be thinner, P and earlier are built like Ru tanks, the 7s like UK tanks.
The pre 7 Canons do have different viewfinder (the frames are not projected like M's) optics - you have to look through them in dim light before you buy - finder problems also occur e.g. M3, and M4-2, cleaning a M4-2 is cheap, the M3 and early Canons may be more of a (>$) problem.
Both my VI-L and P have tarnished optics but last Sat two M owners spent ages fondling them in dim lighting and said you cannot see the rangefinder frame like a M but the focusing coincidence is just as easy, their reference M2 had just been CLAed. The rangefinder is subjective you need to do the dim light test yourself to see if you are happy, with both the body you are buying, and the Canons P double image, it is not like an M, and can be off putting initially.
But to answer your question I am not troubled by flare & later Ms than mid M4-2 can also flare badly, but there is an upgrade available. Take the body you are buying out into the sun, even if it is an early M4-2.
The Canon lenses tend to be superb even after 40 years, but they also may need an internal clean, if it needs a clean ask for a discount. the Ru lenses are ok alas the j12 I have does not fit either body I have, it has also a tendancy to flare, but it is real cheap.
If you have a local brick camera shop want until they have a Canon in the window, they dont sell that quickly, if you like it buy, buying one on e-bay more risky, if it shows signs of damage and the shutter will have more wrinkles then me, ask for discount, the shutters are normally ok wrinked. Dont stick a finger in the shutter after you buy...
The Canon kit tends to be a lot cheaper than leitz, fewer collectors.

dslater · Sep 13, 2007

Jersey Vic said:
Baseline is width ? The rangefinder is clear and accurate and intergrated with the viewfinder and 1.5 inch wide between the windows.
The camera is approx 5 inches.
Not a Leica but I could hit someone with it in a seedy alley and take fine contrasty sunny f16 photos when we ran out of it. (I'm a native Bronx-ite)

Very good review:

http://cameras.alfredklomp.com/zorki4/

The effective baseline is the distance between the 2 windows multiplied by the magnification of the viewfinder. Knowing this can give you an idea of how long/fast a lens you can focus accurately. Sounds like the baseline is about 38mm. if the viewfinder is about .72x magnification, then the effective baseline is about 27mm. For comparison, a Leica M3 has an effective baseline of about 62mm while a Canon 7 is about 47mm

dslater · Sep 13, 2007

Xmas said:
The Canon 7 have meters which may mean more maintenance ($) the cadding may be thinner, P and earlier are built like Ru tanks, the 7s like UK tanks.
The pre 7 Canons do have different viewfinder (the frames are not projected like M's) optics - you have to look through them in dim light before you buy - finder problems also occur e.g. M3, and M4-2, cleaning a M4-2 is cheap, the M3 and early Canons may be more of a (>$) problem.
Both my VI-L and P have tarnished optics but last Sat two M owners spent ages fondling them in dim lighting and said you cannot see the rangefinder frame like a M but the focusing coincidence is just as easy, their reference M2 had just been CLAed. The rangefinder is subjective you need to do the dim light test yourself to see if you are happy, with both the body you are buying, and the Canons P double image, it is not like an M, and can be off putting initially.
But to answer your question I am not troubled by flare & later Ms than mid M4-2 can also flare badly, but there is an upgrade available. Take the body you are buying out into the sun, even if it is an early M4-2.
The Canon lenses tend to be superb even after 40 years, but they also may need an internal clean, if it needs a clean ask for a discount. the Ru lenses are ok alas the j12 I have does not fit either body I have, it has also a tendancy to flare, but it is real cheap.
If you have a local brick camera shop want until they have a Canon in the window, they dont sell that quickly, if you like it buy, buying one on e-bay more risky, if it shows signs of damage and the shutter will have more wrinkles then me, ask for discount, the shutters are normally ok wrinked. Dont stick a finger in the shutter after you buy...
The Canon kit tends to be a lot cheaper than leitz, fewer collectors.

thanks for the information. The only problem is that I don't know of any camera shops near me that carry these old rangefinders, So I am limited to either ebay or KEH - makes it difficult to try the camera before buying it. If money were no object, I'd just get a Leica, but that's too expensive. So, if you had to buy one before trying it out, which would you choose?
Dan

Anscojohn · Sep 13, 2007

Screw thread mount

Some of the Russian knock-offs of the screw mount Leicas were very look a like, others not so. Even the real lookalikes were built more lightly and do not have the feel. Still, you can put the Leica lenses there-on, and they usually work perfectly.

The Russian cameras taking the same lenses which are less look a like can be downright ugly, but they do work. My Leicafriend has an old Zorki 4 which he uses with his screw thread leica lenses with perfectly good results. I have a bright-red-leather- bodied Fed with an Industar lens. Cost my 20 bucks plus shipping, used, from a guy in Ukraine. It actually works ok. Truth to tell, though, I bought it because of the red covering more than for any other reason, just so I could say I have one.

John, Mount Vernon, Virginia USA

Xmas · Sep 13, 2007

dslater said:
thanks for the information. The only problem is that I don't know of any camera shops near me that carry these old rangefinders, So I am limited to either ebay or KEH - makes it difficult to try the camera before buying it. If money were no object, I'd just get a Leica, but that's too expensive. So, if you had to buy one before trying it out, which would you choose?
Dan

Dan
Difficult.
You might not like the rangefinder, it is like having a tunnel entrance and exit in front of one. You need to go on a forum outing with a Canon user, and fondle, try orgainising a local outing.
A forum member you trust, my VL-L, he was cautious in his description.
Brick camera shop for my P good returns policy, perfect body and lens.
You lens usage and specs, if you use 35mm and specs then the frame is tight with a P, keeping both eyes open is impossible for lots of people. The frame is tighter then a M2.
If you use 5cm the either VI-x (x= L or T) or P are ok.
The P and VI-x competed with the M2 and M3 head on in late 50s, they are good cameras.
If you dont use specs then the bottom plate trigger of the VI-T, is real fast for a 35mm, holding the camera and firing fast is difficult with the trigger, shaks is easier (less apparent with a 35).
I prefer the P for the 35mm and the VI-L for the 5cm, specs, but I use both eyes.
Hope this helps a little - Cameraquest have a good site, they have new CV LTM lenses as well, the Canons should be cheaper, even in good condition.
Noel
The P frame is tighter then a M2 because the magnification of the P is higher, lots of people like that.

Jersey Vic · Sep 13, 2007

I think eBay from a reputable seller that knows their stuff and allows for refunds might be the way to go. I've paid a little more than $200 for each of my Leica bodies and have had no problems. Add a Jupiter 8 and youre in for $250 or less.

Ritzcam has some on sale at various prices that are far less than B&H (my local source) and they allow for a 7 day return.

http://www.collectiblecameras.com/catalog/index.php?category_id=3

removed account4 · Sep 13, 2007

Jersey Vic said:
Ritzcam has some on sale at various prices that are far less than B&H (my local source) and they allow for a 7 day return.

http://www.collectiblecameras.com/catalog/index.php?category_id=3

i bought a 1/2 frame pen FT from ritz.
they are good folks, and if i had the $$$$
i would not hesitate to buy from them again!

if you go russian-clone-route,
some zorki have light leaks, so get a seal-kit too ...

k_jupiter · Sep 13, 2007

I have never used a Leica, heard they were OK...

Zorkis? I have two fours, the first roll through both of them with a Jupiter 50mm lens was great. In each the rewind hangs up and you can't put a second roll through unless you hit the right combination of needle nose pliers, small flat screwdriver, and luck.

Now I also have a Zorki 1. You need to trim the film leader, just like a Leica. It has all the same knobs as a single speed control Leica. Looks like a Leica, feels like a Leica. And it takes nice photos with the Industar 50mm lens on it. I would like to try a Leica 35mm lens on it someday. So why don't I put the Jupiter lens on it? It's ugly as sin that way and the leather case doesn't close.

Get a Leica III.

tim in san jose

Roger Hicks · Sep 13, 2007

In about 1970 my girlfriend wanted a cheap, reliable, manual camera. For GBP 20 she bought Leica no. 23010, a II conversion.

After a while she wanted it back so I bought a IIIa no. 229 589 which I still have.

Since then I have owned A, I, II, III, IIIa, IIIb, IIIc, IIIf, IIIg, M2, M3, M4-P, MP, M8. Also various Zorkiis, Feds, Canons, Leningrads, Reids, Voigtlanders (L-R-T-R2-R2S) Corfields, Zeiss Ikons and Yashica/Nicca, even an Ilford Witness. And I have borrowed other Canons, Voigtlanders and Leicas B, FF/GG, M1, M6ttl, M7. That's not counting RF cameras with other mounts (Kiev/Contax, even Hensoldt).

Yes, screw Leicas are cheaper. But on the basis of extensive experience, I'd say the following:

Buy an M-mount. New Leica M for preference; used (non-metered) M or (metered) ZI or Voigtlander as second choice; used Voigtlander as third choice.

Screw Leicas are gorgeous but now VERY old. My 1936 IIIa has been to several good repairers with bad results: it's simply worn out. Sure, later (or less hard-worked) screw-mounts are better, but an M ain't that much bigger, or that much more expensive, and I know which I'd rather have.

Cheers,

Roger

PHOTOTONE · Sep 13, 2007

I have Leica screwmount, Russian Leica Clones, Leica "M" mount cameras and Cosina/Voigtlander cameras. The original Leica screwmount cameras are wonderful, little jewels of cameras, that take spectatularly good images once you get familiar with them. They are not hard to use at all, just somewhat different from late model SLR cameras.

snegron · Sep 13, 2007

Thanks for all the feedback! I guess I need to do much more research before I make the purchase. I would really like an M series Leica, but the prices are double or sometimes triple over screwmount Leicas. Even the M3's are still high priced, especially the single stroke models.

Unfortunately I live in an area with no local camera shops (only the Ritz Camera stores at the mall and the oldest cameras they have are the digi-offerings of last month). I am limited to mail order, so I am probably going to purchase from KEH as usual.

Lee Shively · Sep 15, 2007

Be advised I have never ordered from these folks but they are reputed to be an excellent source of older photo equipment. Here's a link:
http://www.collectiblecameras.com/

Their inventory, listed on the web and downloadable, is impressive.

Leica Screwmount Suggestions

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency