Leica Screwmount Suggestions

snegron · Sep 12, 2007

I noticed that the prices of Leica Screwmount cameras are considerably lower than M mount cameras. I have been tempted to get a screwmount IIIf body with a 35mm or 50mm lens. Any suggestions? I plan to actually use this camera for weekend/fun shooting. I would love to get any one of the M series rangefinder cameras, but the prices are still too high for me especially the lenses.

Is it worth looking into getting an old screwmount, or will I be just getting a delicate little museum piece that is too fragile to use?

I would like to get a rangefinder and I think this would be an easy inexpensive alternative. I looked into getting a new Bessa R3, even had my credit card in hand, but when I spoke to the distributor here in the U.S. (West Coast area) he seemed a bit snobbish, curt, and not very helpful. Totally bummed me out, so I decided not to give him my money.

I have looked at used Contax G1 and G2's, but despite having a great reputation, they seem a bit too "point and shooty" to me (I like to wind my own film and focus by myself). Also, I have a weakness for all metal cameras.

Jim Jones · Sep 12, 2007

I used the IIIf and similar Japanese cameras for many years. The dual rangefinder-viewfinder windows are a slight inconvenience. The small viewfinder is less pleasant to use than later Canon and Leica rangefinders. The two shutter speed dials can initially be confusing. One must be careful not to interfere with the rotation of the high shutter speed dial during exposure. Gloves really get in the way. Loading is less convenient than with newer cameras. The film must be trimmed for a longer tongue, or the film gate covered with something like card stock while loading, or the shoulder of the film might hang up on the edge of the film gate. On the other hand, the IIIf and similar cameras are very compact, especially with an Elmar f/3.5 or the superb Elmar f/2.8. Screw mount lenses can be mounted with an adaptor to the M series if you ever upgrade. The IIIf is not a delicate item to only be admired on a shelf. They are a workhorse. However, any camera 50 years old may be due for a CLA.

Jersey Vic · Sep 12, 2007

I have a IIIa and a Bessa R2 from I bought from Steve Gandy at www.cameraquest.com (GREAT guy and source of info) and if I want 'fun' aka -I'm not planning on shooting anything potentially 'priceless', I use the Leica-a beautiful small but hard to load non metered work of art. If I need a bright rangefinder window, good built in metering, framelines for a number of lenses and want to use screw mount and M series lenses, the R is the way to go. I love my Summitar 50mm especially shot wide open for portraits and my CV 50 Nokton (super contrasty and sharp). Russian lenses can be wonderful and cheap as well.
Have Fun and definitely check out all of the info on Leicas and Bessas on Steve site..amazing amount of info.

snegron · Sep 12, 2007

Thanks for the feedback! I had no idea about the film loading issue. Is there any site I can go to for more info on how to use the IIIf? I am assuming that it would be next to impossible to find an instruction manual.

Jim, why does it have two shutter speed dials?

Vic, I have seen a few samples out there for sale with disclaimers of having dim viewfinders. Is this the way they were designed, or is this a result of the viewfinders getting dim over time?

Phil · Sep 12, 2007

This should help:

http://yandr.50megs.com/leica/3f/3f.htm

David H. Bebbington · Sep 12, 2007

Agree with previous postings. If you're not interested in flash photography, you could consider a IIIc (same camera as IIIf but no flash contact), just make sure to buy one made after the war! The IIIf comes in basically 3 models, black dial, red dial, and red dial with self-timer (price rises in this order). No real difference from a user point of view -agree with Jim that a CLA will probably be necessary.

The thing with Leicas is that they are very well engineered and there are a LOT of them around which have been used very lightly by amateurs. If you find an old one that doesn't work, this is usually because of dried-up grease due to lack of use rather than heavy wear and broken parts. A screw-mount Leica which has been serviced correctly is a very durable working tool. Copies of (reprinted) operating instructions are freely available from Hove Camera Books in the UK, probably elsewhere as well.

As regards dim viewfinders, this relates to the rangefinder - this has various prisms which have silver coating on their front faces (i.e. exposed to the air), this can tarnish over time, it will clean up if not too bad, otherwise the surface concerned will need re-silvering, which any good Leica repairshop can do for not too much money. A Leica rangefinder is as bright as any other if in good order. The two shutter speed dials are quirky, the fact that the speeds on the slow-speed dial are in random order even more so, but you get used to it. Similarly, cutting a 100 mm half-width leader on films is not a problem. Go for a Leica - you're sure to enjoy the experience!

Regards,

David

snegron · Sep 12, 2007

Phil said:
This should help:

http://yandr.50megs.com/leica/3f/3f.htm

Thanks for the link!

snegron · Sep 12, 2007

David H. Bebbington said:
Agree with previous postings. If you're not interested in flash photography, you could consider a IIIc (same camera as IIIf but no flash contact), just make sure to buy one made after the war! The IIIf comes in basically 3 models, black dial, red dial, and red dial with self-timer (price rises in this order). No real difference from a user point of view -agree with Jim that a CLA will probably be necessary.

The thing with Leicas is that they are very well engineered and there are a LOT of them around which have been used very lightly by amateurs. If you find an old one that doesn't work, this is usually because of dried-up grease due to lack of use rather than heavy wear and broken parts. A screw-mount Leica which has been serviced correctly is a very durable working tool. Copies of (reprinted) operating instructions are freely available from Hove Camera Books in the UK, probably elsewhere as well.

As regards dim viewfinders, this relates to the rangefinder - this has various prisms which have silver coating on their front faces (i.e. exposed to the air), this can tarnish over time, it will clean up if not too bad, otherwise the surface concerned will need re-silvering, which any good Leica repairshop can do for not too much money. A Leica rangefinder is as bright as any other if in good order. The two shutter speed dials are quirky, the fact that the speeds on the slow-speed dial are in random order even more so, but you get used to it. Similarly, cutting a 100 mm half-width leader on films is not a problem. Go for a Leica - you're sure to enjoy the experience!

Regards,

David

Any recommendations on a reputable repair shop in the U.S.?

David H. Bebbington · Sep 12, 2007

snegron said:
Any recommendations on a reputable repair shop in the U.S.?

Not personally, I use Newton Ellis & Co. of Liverpool, but I'm sure someone will have a good suggestion!

PS: Here's some instructions:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Leica-Instruc...goryZ712QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

dslater · Sep 12, 2007

I'm going to throw out an off the wall suggestion here. before you go out an buy a leica screw mount camera, you might want to take a look at the Voigtlander Bessa T over at http://www.cameraquest.com. In the description for this camera, they compare it to a Leica IIIf. Like the Leica IIIf it doesn't have a viewfinder. I does have a very long effective rangefinder baseline, TTL metering and a Leica M-mount on which you can use a LTM lens with an adapter.
Just a thought as I think at $185.00 it is less expensive than a used Leica and you may find it easier to have serviced.

Jersey Vic · Sep 12, 2007

Screw mounts are bottom loading. You need to take off the bottom, take out the take up spool, load the film into it and work it all back into the camera. Not fast.

Some Leica screw mounts links that I found incredibly useful :

http://www.cameraquest.com/ltmcam.htm
http://www.cameraquest.com/ltmlens.htm
http://www.cameraquest.com/rfbuy.htm
http://www.cameraquest.com/rflench.htm

I love my Leicas -LOVE them ! - but a Bessa is a great shooter and more user friendly for me.

Have fun.

Victor

dslater · Sep 12, 2007

Actually, I just took a look at the page about Leica screw mount cameras and apparently they do have a viewfinder, but it is separate from the range finder. The Bessa T doesn't have a viewfinder - you need an external viewfinder.

Lee L · Sep 12, 2007

US repair shops:

Don Goldberg http://www.dagcamera.com/

Sherry Krauter Dead Link Removed

Both factory trained and with decades of experience. Both come very highly recommended. Sherry used to train people around the world for E. Leitz. I have only used Don on the one CLA (to an SLR) that I've needed.

Lee

David H. Bebbington · Sep 13, 2007

dslater said:
Actually, I just took a look at the page about Leica screw mount cameras and apparently they do have a viewfinder, but it is separate from the range finder. The Bessa T doesn't have a viewfinder - you need an external viewfinder.

You're right about the T - the IIIf follows Leitz's usual system of model designations:
If - no viewfinder or rangefinder
IIf - viewfinder and rangefinder, no slow speeds
IIIf - all the comforts of home! (viewfinder, rangefinder, slow speeds)
Same system applies to c cameras (Ic, IIc, IIIc, all of which have no flash contact, or least didn't have when they left the factoiry).

Regards,

David

patrickjames · Sep 13, 2007

Forget about the screwmount Leicas if you want a useable camera.They are great for nostalgia and their small size, but for taking pictures... I am surprised no one has mentioned the Canons yet. I have a Canon 7 and it is a great camera. It will cost you about the same or less than a Leica screwmount or Bessa, and it is a far better camera. And I mean it is better by leaps and bounds. Easy loading, great viewfinder and super smoooth. It is as nice as my late model M3 which is supposed to be the best Leica ever made. You should be able to pick one up for under $200.

Patrick

dslater · Sep 13, 2007

patrickjames said:
Forget about the screwmount Leicas if you want a useable camera.They are great for nostalgia and their small size, but for taking pictures... I am surprised no one has mentioned the Canons yet. I have a Canon 7 and it is a great camera. It will cost you about the same or less than a Leica screwmount or Bessa, and it is a far better camera. And I mean it is better by leaps and bounds. Easy loading, great viewfinder and super smoooth. It is as nice as my late model M3 which is supposed to be the best Leica ever made. You should be able to pick one up for under $200.

Patrick

Hmm - you know I looked into getting a Canon 7 a while back. The thing that turned me off was the fact that the Canon 7 lacks an accessory shoe and they're hard to find and expensive. The Canon 7s does have an accessory shoe, but they are much more expensive - $400.00 to $500.00. Also, I decided that if I get a rangefinder, I would be better off with an M mount camera. Ultimately I decided that I just couldn't justify the outlay for a rangefinder system when I already have a pretty extensive Nikon SLR system, so I opted to just get a Canonet QL-17 as a camera to keep in my car.
To be honest, I really like the Canonet - It's smalle, light and super quiet. The only downside is the fixed lens. I am now considering replacing it with a Leica CL or CLE with a 40mm and a 75 or 90mm lens.

Jim Jones · Sep 13, 2007

snegron said:
. . . Jim, why does it have two shutter speed dials?
, , , QUOTE]

The shutter speed dial on the top of the camera controlled the shutter slit width for speeds from 1/20 or 1/30 second and up. The shutter speed dial on the front controlled the delay between opening the first shutter curtain and closing the second curtain for speeds down to one second. When this system first appeared in 1933 it was innovative enough that probably few photographers objected. Leica was a very conservative company, and didn't change to single speed dials for about 20 years. After all, compared to the Speed Graphic cameras of that time, the Leica was very simple to use.

Xmas · Sep 13, 2007

The two most practical bodies are the
Canon P
M4-2
Both are fast handling slick machimes with superb viewfinders, and will accept any LTM lens, the M4-2 needs the LTM to M adapter.
The most practical lens is the
J12 (35mm) for the M4-2, the exception the J12 probably wont fit most Canon VI-T, VI-L or P's
Canon f/2.8 for the P
get a beaten up shooter...
if you only use a 35mm the VI-T is really slick trigger wind.

Noel

Jim Jones · Sep 13, 2007

patrickjames said:
Forget about the screwmount Leicas if you want a useable camera.They are great for nostalgia and their small size, but for taking pictures... I am surprised no one has mentioned the Canons yet. I have a Canon 7 and it is a great camera. It will cost you about the same or less than a Leica screwmount or Bessa, and it is a far better camera. And I mean it is better by leaps and bounds. Easy loading, great viewfinder and super smoooth. It is as nice as my late model M3 which is supposed to be the best Leica ever made. You should be able to pick one up for under $200.

Patrick

I own and have used screw mount and M series Leicas, and Canon P and 7. The Canons have some conveniences lacking in older Leicas. However, when wide open my Canon 50mm f/1.4 compares poorly with the 50mm Summicron. My Leica M4 has performed well for 37 years while the slightly older Canons have long sat on a shelf. When using both bodies, the Leica is noticably smoother.

Both Canon and Leica were capable of fine photographs when properly used. Canon was sometimes more innovative than Leica, while Leica persisted in great craftsmanship and conservative design. Condition is everything. A Canon 7 in top condition is certainbly preferable to a Leica that has been beat or used to death like my IIIf.

Jersey Vic · Sep 13, 2007

If $ are an issue, how about a Zorki IV Leica-clone? With a 50mm 2.0 it's $50 or so and if you like the experience you could always mount the lens on an M later. The M's are at a low $-wise as are the III so you'll never lose much if any $ on them.

dslater · Sep 13, 2007

Xmas said:
The two most practical bodies are the
Canon P
M4-2
Both are fast handling slick machimes with superb viewfinders, and will accept any LTM lens, the M4-2 needs the LTM to M adapter.
The most practical lens is the
J12 (35mm) for the M4-2, the exception the J12 probably wont fit most Canon VI-T, VI-L or P's
Canon f/2.8 for the P
get a beaten up shooter...
if you only use a 35mm the VI-T is really slick trigger wind.

Noel

According to what I've read at cameraquest.com, many Canon P 's have problems with flare in the viewfinder which is difficult to correct. What do you think of the Canon 7?

dslater · Sep 13, 2007

I also read that due to some baffles in the Canon P they are not suitable for use with very wide angle lenses

dslater · Sep 13, 2007

Jersey Vic said:
If $ are an issue, how about a Zorki IV Leica-clone? With a 50mm 2.0 it's $50 or so and if you like the experience you could always mount the lens on an M later. The M's are at a low $-wise as are the III so you'll never lose much if any $ on them.

Is this the same camera as a Zorki-4? How are the rangefinders in these cameras? Do you know what the baseline is?

Jersey Vic · Sep 13, 2007

Holding one in my hand..yes it's the "Zopkuu' - 4"
I have the 50th anniversary (??) model.
Baseline is width ? The rangefinder is clear and accurate and intergrated with the viewfinder and 1.5 inch wide between the windows.
The camera is approx 5 inches.
Not a Leica but I could hit someone with it in a seedy alley and take fine contrasty sunny f16 photos when we ran out of it. (I'm a native Bronx-ite)

Very good review:

http://cameras.alfredklomp.com/zorki4/

Rolleiflexible · Sep 13, 2007

I use a Leica IIIa on those rare occasions where my Rolleiflex will not do. Don't believe those naysayers who claim the camera is hard to use -- it is not. It has some quirks that take maybe two minutes to sort out.

I don't use the Russian cameras but my Russian photographer friend says he swears by the Fed-2 and swears at the Zorki line. He says the build quality is better and the Feds feel more solid.

Leica Screwmount Suggestions

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