Leica rangefinder flare?

rolleiman · Dec 5, 2012

Apologies if this subject has been raised before, but I've heard that M6 rangefinders have a tendency to "flare" in certain light conditions making them difficult to focus. I came across this criticism again when reading a Net review of the Bessa R2; the reviewer stating he preferred the Bessa to the M6 as the rangefinder was brighter and not prone to the flare exhibited by the M6 in bright light.

Have M6 users encountered this? Would it deter you from purchasing another one?

zightx · Dec 5, 2012

I've owned a M6 classic before and just purchased a M6 TTL. I've found the rangefinder flare annoying from time to time. It doesn't happend that often but when you're shooting in bright light/into a lightsource it happends once in a while. Try reposition the camera and keep the eye in the middle of the viewfinder.

You can get it upgraded to the MP finder which should be much less prone to flare.

250swb · Dec 5, 2012

It never really bothered me, just repositioning my eye or a very slight movement of the camera would solve it. The perceived problem seems to have gotten bigger the longer the camera has been out of production, purely because what was OK then now becomes a PITA because of the better MP viewfinder. People are less tolerant. And I think you could go a long time without even seeing the problem anyway.

Steve

Oren Grad · Dec 5, 2012

Yes, the rangefinders in my M6 bodies flare. But I can almost always work around it, and it hasn't bothered me enough to justify paying for the finders to be upgraded with the MP rangefinder components. Also, if I needed another body and found an attractively-priced M6, the RF flare wouldn't stop me from buying it.

Pioneer · Dec 5, 2012

Mine has flared occasionally. I curse a lot when it happens. It usually is not a problem but if you shoot into strong light a lot, you may want to consider holding your hand between the light source and the viewfinder. In my experience that seem to take care of the worst of the problem and it is probably a lot less expensive than swapping viewfinders. It is a bit trickier to focus when you are using one hand to shield the viewfinder but true rangefinder fans are used to little set backs like this.

jochen · Dec 6, 2012

Hello,
the viewfinder of all M-cameras from the M 2 to the M 6 have more or less flare when a very intensive light source is a little bit outside of the frame. The only exception is the M 3 which has a tolly different viewfinder. My M 6 had to be sent in for repair and by this opportunity I let exchange the front glass against the multi coated one from the MP 0.72. The result was that now the red LED's are so extremely bright, that it is sometimes difficult to balance them for equal brigthness. I contacted Mr. Erwin Puts and he confirmed my observation.

sepiareverb · Dec 6, 2012

Way more problematic on the internet than in real life. I've been shooting M bodies nearly every day for seven years and have seen this once or twice.

rolleiman · Dec 6, 2012

Thanks for all the replies. I guess I'll try both the M6 and the Bessa R2 viewfinders before I decide on a purchase. It does seem a little strange though that given the high cost of the Leica, they haven't found a fix for this, even if it is not that troublesome to some. If Cosina can incorporate a viewfinder that apparently doesn't flare in a much cheaper priced camera, why can't Leica?

jochen · Dec 6, 2012

Hello,
the exchange of the front window really did improve the flare of my M 6 but on the other side now the LED's are too bright. If you follow the development from the M 3 to the MP or M 7 you cannot say that Leica was really innovative. The M 6 had the technical niveau of a Pentax Spotmatic from 1964. They did not invest huge sums into the improvement of a design that with the M 3 in 1954 was so perfect.

Mackinaw · Dec 6, 2012

rolleiman said:
Thanks for all the replies. I guess I'll try both the M6 and the Bessa R2 viewfinders before I decide on a purchase. It does seem a little strange though that given the high cost of the Leica, they haven't found a fix for this, even if it is not that troublesome to some. If Cosina can incorporate a viewfinder that apparently doesn't flare in a much cheaper priced camera, why can't Leica?

Leica did fix the problem. They added a small lens into the viewfinder mechanism which eliminated the flare. MP cameras have the improved viewfinder, so they don't flare. Some folks have had the MP viewfinder installed in their M6 but most folks don't. In reality, the flare is no big deal. It rarely happens. As somebody else suggested, you may see it a few times/year. If I had a M6, I sure wouldn't worry about it.

Jim B.

georg16nik · Dec 6, 2012

rolleiman said:
...I've heard that M6 rangefinders have a tendency to "flare" in certain light conditions making them difficult to focus. I came across this criticism again when reading a Net review of the Bessa R2; the reviewer stating he preferred the Bessa to the M6 as the rangefinder was brighter and not prone to the flare exhibited by the M6 in bright light..

The Leica photographer is not supposed to rely on the rangefinder that much, he should be able "see* the shot on his mind, the RF is optional.
If someone complains about Leica RF/VF, even the LTM ones, then he simply need practice.

Susie Frith · Dec 6, 2012

When I was in KwaZulu-Natal last year there was occasionally some flare on my M6, but to be honest, I've never thought it a problem. The finder on my M2 seems much brighter.

Either way the cameras and lenses themselves are so light and easy to use I have always just excepted it as being how it is! I started using screwmount Leicas years before the internet, and so have never had a problem with on-line reviews!

I suggest you go to a camera shop and just try one out. The only problem with that course though is that as soon as you hold it, you'll have to have it!

Susie

rolleiman · Dec 7, 2012

Susie Frith;suggest you go to a camera shop and just try one out. The only problem with that course though is that as soon as you hold it said:
That's what scares me Susie!..As has been stated, the MP doesn't suffer the flare problem, but UK s/h prices for this model are prohibitive, possibly because they don't crop up that often compared to previous models. I'd thought about an M2 or M4 chrome, since I'd heard the flare problem started later after production shifted to Canada. (Although I may be wrong here).

Not having sampled Leicas or Bessas, I was very much looking to lighten my load, after hunking around mainly Nikon gear during a professional career.

Tim Gray · Dec 7, 2012

I've definitely had it happen a bit. It usually only happens in a certain situations; depending on what you shoot, you might never encounter it. Moving your eye in the finder can help sometimes, as can rotating the camera by 90 degrees.

Would it deter me from buying an M6? No. Would I get the finder upgrade installed on a favorite camera if it went to DAG for some other reason? Yes.

As it is, my M7 has the upgraded finder and I do find it better. However, the 0.58x finder makes much larger impact on my day to day use than the flare fix.

Susie Frith · Dec 8, 2012

Hi Rolleiman (do you have a name we can call you by?)

I really do think you're getting bogged down with the flare 'problem'. As you say you used Nikons professionally for years, I think the whole rangefinder thing will be a bigger shock to the system than possibly occasional flare in the viewfinder. I use Leicas because I find them very convienient to use, not awkward at all, and am happy with the lens range available: mine are all modest aperture versions - no speed giants!

Although I still have my M2 and lenses (which I bought from its original owner - a retired Major in 43rgt Royal Marines Commando!) now my eyesight is so poor close up, I find the LED meter in the M6 so much easier to use. I cannot read the MR meter on the M2 without putting my glasses on. Don't forget that the M2 only has brightline frames for the 35, 50 and 90mm lenses. It is now on the reserve list, usually with a Visoflex attached!

Recently, I had thought of getting an MP a la carte, not because of any flare issue (to be honest I didn't know there was one until I read your post) but as a retirement present to myself. In the end I just kept with my M6 as it is an old friend of twenty years!

In all fairness, you really do need to go and have a play with one at a good shop: and buy it from there, not ebay!

Best wishes,

Susie

budrichard · Dec 8, 2012

rolleiman said:
Apologies if this subject has been raised before, but I've heard that M6 rangefinders have a tendency to "flare" in certain light conditions making them difficult to focus. I came across this criticism again when reading a Net review of the Bessa R2; the reviewer stating he preferred the Bessa to the M6 as the rangefinder was brighter and not prone to the flare exhibited by the M6 in bright light.

Have M6 users encountered this? Would it deter you from purchasing another one?

"Tempest in a Tea Pot".
Seriously, I don't know how many of these users get anything done as they are constantly complaining about this or that feature that they don't like. I use the equipment for what it can accomplish and work with any problems.
I have had M cameras for over25 years with M3, M6 and two M7's. Yes you can get flare in the M6, so what. move slightly, my M7's are upgraded simple because they were already at Solm's for the ASA reader upgrade and one had the finder also upgraded under warranty and I paid for the other simply because I wanted both M7's alike, my 0.85 M6 has never been upgraded(both my M7's are 0.85 also).
It's a non issue.-Dick

budrichard · Dec 8, 2012

georg16nik said:
The Leica photographer is not supposed to rely on the rangefinder that much, he should be able "see* the shot on his mind, the RF is optional.
If someone complains about Leica RF/VF, even the LTM ones, then he simply need practice.

Excuse me for being so blunt but that's about the stupidest Post I have read in a long time.-Dick

rolleiman · Dec 8, 2012

Susie Frith said:
Hi Rolleiman (do you have a name we can call you by?)

I really do think you're getting bogged down with the flare 'problem'. As you say you used Nikons professionally for years, I think the whole rangefinder thing will be a bigger shock to the system than possibly occasional flare in the viewfinder. I use Leicas because I find them very convienient to use, not awkward at all, and am happy with the lens range available: mine are all modest aperture versions - no speed giants!
Susie

You can call me Mark..
I'm fairly used to a rangefiner, for years (before the digital plague!) I used an Olympus 35RC pocket rangefinder for "discreet" news jobs...since replaced with the 35RD, main difference a 40mm f1.7 zuiko lens. instead of the 2.8 version. I figured on a Leica with the collapsible 2.8 Elmar 50mm, a compact version of the 90mm Elmarit plus a
28mm. I know from experience this range covers most situations of a travel nature. I figured I'd be able to stash these in the pockets of a photo jacket without needing a camera bag. As I enjoy footpath walking with a rucksack, a camera bag as well just gets in the way.

I'm satisfied from what I've heard here that the "flare" problem is a minor one

Pioneer · Dec 8, 2012

budrichard said:
Excuse me for being so blunt but that's about the stupidest Post I have read in a long time.-Dick

Wow, just a bit techy ain't we...

georg16nik · Dec 9, 2012

budrichard said:
Excuse me for being so blunt but that's about the stupidest Post I have read in a long time.-Dick

Don't bother, forum trolls and Leica sissies are excused by default.

Sirius Glass · Dec 9, 2012

budrichard said:
Excuse me for being so blunt but that's about the stupidest Post I have read in a long time.-Dick

My, my, someone did not get his bottle and blanket last night.

Susie Frith · Dec 10, 2012

budrichard said:
Excuse me for being so blunt but that's about the stupidest Post I have read in a long time.-Dick

I must admit, I entirley agree with Dick on this. My first reaction was, "What a load of old cob***s!" (Pardon my French)

Susie

mhcfires · Dec 12, 2012

Susie Frith said:
I must admit, I entirley agree with Dick on this. My first reaction was, "What a load of old cob***s!" (Pardon my French)

Susie

+1

Mark Crabtree · Dec 13, 2012

Susie Frith said:
I must admit, I entirley agree with Dick on this. My first reaction was, "What a load of old cob***s!" (Pardon my French)

Susie

Or perhaps just a lighthearted take on HCB. Nonetheless, the rangefinder flare has been a real issue for many of us. Certainly, many people aren't bothered by it, but that does not mean the people who are complaining are wrong.

As far as I know nobody complained about rangefinder flare with the M3, M2, M4, or M5. Depending on who you ask, Leica modified the rangefinder either to simplify, cut costs, or brighten things up. Whatever the reason, they took out a condenser lens and people started complaining about flare. They offered a "modification" to put the condenser back and the flare problem was fixed.

Some cameras do seem worse than others. My late M4-2 shouldn't be much different than an M6, but seems to flare far less. The one M6 I owned briefly was was less than satisfactory to me (not necessarily to you), but a friend has one that seems only marginally worse than my M4-2. The flare is very situation dependent. I am almost never bothered by rangefinder flare with my M4-2, but did encounter it regularly in a particular setting last week.

georg16nik · Dec 13, 2012

Mark Crabtree said:
That post certainly was BS, or perhaps just a lighthearted take on HCB..

Certainly was BS..
Is that so?

Next time try lighthearted take on Ansel Adams or Edward Weston, it might be more appropriate assumption.
Visualization or previsualization precede HCB, even the Leica reel precede HCB.

Leica rangefinder flare?

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