Leica M6 annoyances...

BradS · Sep 16, 2019

The meter doesn't work until the film is advanced...SERIOUSLY????

and if true, WTF were they thinking???

The built in meter is only there as a "just in case" feature?

I do not get it..seriously, does anybody know or can speculate about the reasoning behind this?

or, is it just a grand engineering-economic compromise?

Pieter12 · Sep 16, 2019

I assume so the battery doesn't drain.

mcfitz · Sep 16, 2019

BradS said:
The meter doesn't work until the shutter is advanced...SERIOUSLY????

and if true, WTF were they thinking???

The built in meter is only there as a "just in case" feature?

I do not get it..seriously, does anybody know or can speculate about the reasoning behind this?

or, is it just a grand engineering-economic compromise?

Well... I dunno, advance the shutter then. The camera will work without the battery, without the light meter operating, but if you want to use the camera as a light meter, then keep it cocked.

Otherwise I don't understand why this is a problem, but would be interested to know. My Minolta's won't meter unless the film is advanced as well, but unlike the Leicas, they won't fire if the batteries are dead. The Leicas will do so, even though I have to adapt to meter not working.

Othertimes it is a reminder the shutter isn't cocked, so I need to wake up.

abruzzi · Sep 16, 2019

Does the M6 have a shutter lock? I would find it annoying because I have a habit of not advancing the film on my 35mm cameras until I'm about to shoot, which prevents accidental shutter firing.

Colin Corneau · Sep 16, 2019

I haven't had a battery in my M6 for over a decade. I just had such better results with a small Gossen Digisix meter...

Good point about battery drain. I've also wasted a LOT of frames having the film advanced and accidentally tripping the shutter. I think this is a deliberate and sensible decision.

mshchem · Sep 16, 2019

BradS said:
The meter doesn't work until the shutter is advanced...SERIOUSLY????

and if true, WTF were they thinking???

The built in meter is only there as a "just in case" feature?

I do not get it..seriously, does anybody know or can speculate about the reasoning behind this?

or, is it just a grand engineering-economic compromise?

Trying to save the battery.
I've got a M6ttl. One thing that's cool is if you leave the lens cap on, it all flashes. Leica choose LEDs which eat power, but you can see them when you need to. I have a 0.85x finder model, personally I wouldn't trade it for any other Leica body.
Mike

BradS · Sep 16, 2019

Pieter12 said:
I assume so the battery doesn't drain.

mshchem said:
Trying to save the battery.
I've got a M6ttl. One thing that's cool is if you leave the lens cap on, it all flashes. Leica choose LEDs which eat power, but you can see them when you need to. I have a 0.85x finder model, personally I wouldn't trade it for any other Leica body.
Mike

...but in the plain M6 (pre M6TTL), the meter is off until the user touches the shutter button and the LEDs turn off auto-magically after a few seconds.

I've read that, on the M6TTL, moving the shutter speed selector to 'B' truns the meter off. Is the meter otherwise, always on in the M6TTL ?

BradS · Sep 16, 2019

...and what about the M5? How does the meter wortk on that one?

Ko.Fe. · Sep 16, 2019

I’m not sure how it is on M5.
They went same very inconvenient way with Bessa. L was just as on Nikon and after it only with advance.
So, stupid. This is why I see no reason in M with metering.

First time I saw M6 I didn’t even recognized it as Leica

Pieter12 · Sep 16, 2019

BradS said:
...and what about the M5? How does the meter wortk on that one?

It is only on when the shutter is cocked. The M5 has a mechanical arm with the metering cell that moves into position and turns on when the shutter is cocked. When the shutter release is pressed, the arm swings out of the way before the shutter curtain opens.

Sirius Glass · Sep 16, 2019

Gee when I was ten years old I quickly learned that if I did not advance the film after taking a photo, that I could and would end up with a double exposure. I have always considered it a wise habit to advance the film after taking a photograph. My Nikon camera automatically advance the film and cock the shutter. In fact Hasselblad designed the springs to be under tension from the camera being stored in the cocked configuration, thus allowing lenses to be removed without damaging the lens or the camera. Therefore I really cannot understand exactly why the OP is so upset about being encouraged and prompted to have good photographic processes.

Pieter12 · Sep 16, 2019

From the book, "the Leica Manual"

BradS · Sep 16, 2019

Sirius Glass said:
Gee when I was ten years old I quickly learned that if I did not advance the film after taking a photo, that I could and would end up with a double exposure. I have always considered it a wise habit to advance the film after taking a photograph. My Nikon camera automatically advance the film and cock the shutter. In fact Hasselblad designed the springs to be under tension from the camera being stored in the cocked configuration, thus allowing lenses to be removed without damaging the lens or the camera. Therefore I really cannot understand exactly why the OP is so upset about being encouraged and prompted to have good photographic processes.

Hmmm, weird. I started out with cameras that would not allow one to make a double exposure without some effort or trickery. It wasn't until many years later, relatively recently, when I got an old folder with the little ruby window on the back door that I got into the habit of not advancing the film until just prior to making the exposure. I think that maybe the Mamiya C-220F also put me on this track....oh, and the medium format pinhole cameras. I just got used to the protocol of not winding until just prior to tripping the shutter. This virtually eliminates the question..."did I or did I not advance the film?" - the answer is always, No. ....and, with a primative camera, this has the happy effect of virtually eliminating the double exposure at the expense of an occasional un-exposed frame, and also makes it fairly certain that the film will be taught and therefore flat at the moment of exposure.

Sirius Glass · Sep 16, 2019

Sirius Glass said:
Gee when I was ten years old I quickly learned that if I did not advance the film after taking a photo, that I could and would end up with a double exposure. I have always considered it a wise habit to advance the film after taking a photograph. My Nikon camera automatically advance the film and cock the shutter. In fact Hasselblad designed the springs to be under tension from the camera being stored in the cocked configuration, thus allowing lenses to be removed without damaging the lens or the camera. Therefore I really cannot understand exactly why the OP is so upset about being encouraged and prompted to have good photographic processes.

Pieter12 said:
From the book, "the Leica Manual"
View attachment 231076

So it is agreed that advancing the film after each photograph is a good thing and how a camera is stored depends on the camera design. STILL I fail to see why the OP has a problem with advancing the film immediately after taking a photograph.

It seems that we were posting almost simultaneously.

Besk · Sep 16, 2019

I use a notched piece of thick plastic to slide between the camera and camera release (which has a soft touch button on it.) This prevents my M6 from taking a picture of the inside of my bag when the camera is stored with the shutter cocked.

Pieter12 · Sep 16, 2019

BradS said:
Hmmm, weird. I started out with cameras that would not allow one to make a double exposure without some effort or trickery. It wasn't until many years later, relatively recently, when I got an old folder with the little ruby window on the back door that I got into the habit of not advancing the film until just prior to making the exposure. I think that maybe the Mamiya C-220F also put me on this track....oh, and the medium format pinhole cameras. I just got used to the protocol of not winding until just prior to tripping the shutter. This virtually eliminates the question..."did I or did I not advance the film?" - the answer is always, No. ....and, with a primative camera, this has the happy effect of virtually eliminating the double exposure at the expense of an occasional un-exposed frame, and also makes it fairly certain that the film will be taught and therefore flat at the moment of exposure.

That goes for cameras that have separate film advance and shutter cocking controls, like my old Rolleicord.

GregY · Sep 16, 2019

The M6 meters off the shutter. When you advance the film & wind the shutter.....you'll see a white dot on the shutter curtain. That's where the meter reads from.... & that's why the meter doesn't read when the film isn't wound....

BradS · Sep 16, 2019

Sirius Glass said:
So it is agreed that advancing the film after each photograph is a good thing and how a camera is stored depends on the camera design. STILL I fail to see why the OP has a problem with advancing the film immediately after taking a photograph.

The Nikon F2 manual explicitly says not to leave the shutter tensioned for more than a day. I think that the Pentax Spotmatic manuals have a similar suggestion.

Perhaps, I just need to go see a shrink for some (more?) cognitive behavioural therapy...I need to find some positive way of thinking about this concept that seems strange and arbitrary to me. I'm sure those Leica engineers thought deeply about this and considered this way as "Correct"...I just need to discover why it is "Correct" and then get with the program!

mshchem · Sep 16, 2019

BradS said:
...but in the plain M6 (pre M6TTL), the meter is off until the user touches the shutter button and the LEDs turn off auto-magically after a few seconds.

I've read that, on the M6TTL, moving the shutter speed selector to 'B' truns the meter off. Is the meter otherwise, always on in the M6TTL ?

Meter only activates when cocked, if you don't touch the shutter release, after 30 seconds or so it goes off. There's no meter on Bulb, or Off position on shutter speed dial. No way to lock the shutter release, once cocked it's armed and dangerous . The most annoying thing to me about the Nikon F5 is the lock button that must be depressed to turn the camera on. I never have used locks, I'm confused enough as it is.

BradS · Sep 16, 2019

OK, One rather beautiful side effect is that the light meter can be used as a "hey dummy, you forgot to remove the lens cap" indicator. Activating the light meter with the lens cap on makes the LEDs blink! This is a feature that I do like.

swchris · Sep 16, 2019

BradS said:
The Nikon F2 manual explicitly says not to leave the shutter tensioned for more than a day. I think that the Pentax Spotmatic manuals have a similar suggestion.

Spotmatic IDK, but Nikon F2 and Nikom FM have that sentence in their manuals. When I got my first SLR (a FM) in 1980 I adapted to only cock the shutter when I'm about to take a photo. My parents with their Kodak Retina always advanced after taking a photo.

Needless to say, that quite often when I was/am to take "a real good snapshot" I was/am only finding out that I had forgotten to advance the film :-(

Sirius Glass · Sep 16, 2019

BradS said:
The Nikon F2 manual explicitly says not to leave the shutter tensioned for more than a day. I think that the Pentax Spotmatic manuals have a similar suggestion.

Perhaps, I just need to go see a shrink for some (more?) cognitive behavioural therapy...I need to find some positive way of thinking about this concept that seems strange and arbitrary to me. I'm sure those Leica engineers thought deeply about this and considered this way as "Correct"...I just need to discover why it is "Correct" and then get with the program!

No I do not think you need to see a shrink. In fact you probably need all your height.

JensH · Sep 16, 2019

GregY said:
The M6 meters off the shutter. When you advance the film & wind the shutter.....you'll see a white dot on the shutter curtain. That's where the meter reads from.... & that's why the meter doesn't read when the film isn't wound....

+1

That descibes it well!

Best
Jens

mshchem · Sep 16, 2019

swchris said:
Spotmatic IDK, but Nikon F2 and Nikom FM have that sentence in their manuals. When I got my first SLR (a FM) in 1980 I adapted to only cock the shutter when I'm about to take a photo. My parents with their Kodak Retina always advanced after taking a photo.

Needless to say, that quite often when I was/am to take "a real good snapshot" I was/am only finding out that I had forgotten to advance the film :-(

I wonder what Nikon recommended for pros with motor drives? . I got my first F2S in 1973, I hated the LED exposure meter. This camera was stolen and I replaced with an F2. It was stolen when my house was burgled, then F3. I never liked the F3 and so I bought 3 or 4 F2 and F bodies, now I have warmed up to the F3. But I went with the F5. Get a extra F5 while you can they are cheap!

film_man · Sep 17, 2019

Bob Eskridge said:
I use a notched piece of thick plastic to slide between the camera and camera release (which has a soft touch button on it.) This prevents my M6 from taking a picture of the inside of my bag when the camera is stored with the shutter cocked.

Those are the best photos. I could fill a gallery with those.

Leica M6 annoyances...

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency