Leica M-A vs M2/3

ericdan · Dec 30, 2018

Got myself an old Leica M2 to be completely overhauled by Kanto last month.

In the store I compared it to two Leica M-A, new and used.

I was surprised that the old M2 was smoother than the brand new Leica M-A.

The film advance lever, the shutter release and even the shutter speed dial just felt more solid and smooth on the M2. The M-A just overall felt a little cheaper.

I thought the M-A is made to the same standards.

Theo Sulphate · Dec 31, 2018

ericdan said:
Got myself an old Leica M2 to be completely overhauled by Kanto last month.

In the store I compared it to two Leica M-A, new and used.

I was surprised that the old M2 was smoother than the brand new Leica M-A.

The film advance lever, the shutter release and even the shutter speed dial just felt more solid and smooth on the M2. The M-A just overall felt a little cheaper.

I thought the M-A is made to the same standards.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I believe the M2, like the earlier M3, is essentially a hand-built hand-fitted camera. By hand-fitted, I mean that a worker in the Leica factory could not take a part and simply insert it or replace an existing part - the entire mechanism in question had to be calibrated and adjusted to specifications. According to Cameraquest here,

https://www.cameraquest.com/mguide.htm

The M5 was the last such camera to be built this way.

That's not to say the M-A isn't a high quality camera, but it is certainly from a different era than the M2.

chip j · Dec 31, 2018

Even the M4 was cheapened up a bit from the M3.

Ko.Fe. · Dec 31, 2018

M-A would not suffer from VF separation (180 usd at least to fix) and will not need new parts.
M2 as any old camera will. But if it is for bragging on forums with two rolls per year, then M2 is preferable.
I prefer M4-2. I'm not two rolls per year, but 60+. I need no take in spool and normal hotshoe. If I could afford M-A I would buy it, but I could only sell my worn out M4-2 and buy serviced one which was in two rolls per year and bragging on forums lately

Patrick Robert James · Dec 31, 2018

The M2 has been used. I'd imagine that they would be comparable if the M2 was new. Things tend to get smoother over time.

jimjm · Dec 31, 2018

From the M4 onwards, Leica began utilizing zinc and other materials in place of some brass parts, and also began using plastic. This did not necessarily make them less reliable, but were done as cost saving measures.
Obviously, any M2 or M3 will have possibly shot thousands of rolls or more, and will have a different feel from a camera that is only a few years old.
VF separation is a possible issue with M3 bodies, but Leica changed the design with the M2, which basically has remained the same up to today's cameras.
I don't know anything about "bragging" about my M2, but I use mine because it's perfect for me - simple, quiet and reliable. Had it serviced 10 years ago, shoot 50-100 rolls a year and it's never given me a problem.

btaylor · Dec 31, 2018

Ko.Fe. said:
But if it is for bragging on forums with two rolls per year, then M2 is preferable.

I like my M2 a lot. It is very smooth and looks nice too. I probably don't put more than 4 rolls through it a year though, sad! :-(
So no M-A needed for me.

ericdan · Dec 31, 2018

Ko.Fe. said:
M-A would not suffer from VF separation (180 usd at least to fix) and will not need new parts.
M2 as any old camera will. But if it is for bragging on forums with two rolls per year, then M2 is preferable.
I prefer M4-2. I'm not two rolls per year, but 60+. I need no take in spool and normal hotshoe. If I could afford M-A I would buy it, but I could only sell my worn out M4-2 and buy serviced one which was in two rolls per year and bragging on forums lately

It’s for bragging rights on this forum. I should be OK with the M2 then.

ericdan · Jan 1, 2019

Patrick Robert James said:
The M2 has been used. I'd imagine that they would be comparable if the M2 was new. Things tend to get smoother over time.

My other body is an MP from 2003. I bought it used 5 years ago and shot about 150 rolls a year through it. That’s still not as smooth as the M2 felt. I wonder how long it would take if it ever got close.

chip j · Jan 1, 2019

Never happen. I beieive there are more & better parts in the M2/M3s.

Huss · Jan 3, 2019

My M-A feels smoother and tighter than my M7, M5, M4-2, M3 ss, M3 ds, Md-A

ericdan · Jan 3, 2019

Huss said:
My M-A feels smoother and tighter than my M7, M5, M4-2, M3 ss, M3 ds, Md-A

That is very interesting!

Huss · Jan 6, 2019

ericdan said:
That is very interesting!

I gotta tell you, they all feel awesome - even my cheap/beat up M4-2!

The reason to buy a new Leica is that you are getting a new camera. Not for warranty, but lack of wear.

Chan Tran · Jan 6, 2019

Perhaps you have use the new M-A a lot to make it smoother.

logan2z · Jan 29, 2019

A bit late to this thread, but thought I'd chime in. I have an M-A that I purchased new about 1 1/2 years ago and an M4 that was just CLA'd. Both cameras feel great but the M-A feels a bit smoother to me. The film advance lever on the M-A is buttery

NB23 · Jan 29, 2019

Buy the M-A and Brag on...

NB23 · Jan 29, 2019

Huss said:
My M-A feels smoother and tighter than my M7, M5, M4-2, M3 ss, M3 ds, Md-A

No M2, MP, M4? How can you live without those cameras? (Life only valid if Black Paint variant).

Huss · Jan 29, 2019

NB23 said:
No M2, MP, M4? How can you live without those cameras? (Life only valid if Black Paint variant).

The M2 is the stripped out version of the M3. The MA is the perfect cross between the M4 and the MP. I much prefer black chrome to black paint.

Patrick Robert James · Jan 29, 2019

Huss said:
The M2 is the stripped out version of the M3. The MA is the perfect cross between the M4 and the MP. I much prefer black chrome to black paint.

Black Chrome? Heresy! Lol.

Nikon 2 · Apr 20, 2023

I always shop at Walmart.

My shopping list:

Heineken 0.0
Red grapes
Bananas
Organic Salad
Tomatoes
Leica M-A
Onions
Envy Apples
Garlic...!

Huss · Apr 20, 2023

NB23 said:
No M2, MP, M4? How can you live without those cameras? (Life only valid if Black Paint variant).

Since we spoke, now also have the MP and the new M6. Got rid of the M3 DS because IMO DS stands for dumb stroke. I never got to like using the double stroke, and don't see the point of it. Sold the very nice and rare red dot M4-2.
The MP is smoother than my M3. The new M6 is very smooth but needs to be broken in a bit - working on that.

Nikon 2 · Apr 20, 2023

Huss said:
Since we spoke, now also have the MP and the new M6. Got rid of the M3 DS because IMO DS stands for dumb stroke. I never got to like using the double stroke, and don't see the point of it. Sold the very nice and rare red dot M4-2.
The MP is smoother than my M3. The new M6 is very smooth but needs to be broken in a bit - working on that.

I like a that…!

GregY · Apr 20, 2023

Theo Sulphate said:
Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I believe the M2, like the earlier M3, is essentially a hand-built hand-fitted camera. By hand-fitted, I mean that a worker in the Leica factory could not take a part and simply insert it or replace an existing part - the entire mechanism in question had to be calibrated and adjusted to specifications. According to Cameraquest here,

https://www.cameraquest.com/mguide.htm

The M5 was the last such camera to be built this way.

That's not to say the M-A isn't a high quality camera, but it is certainly from a different era than the M2.

You got it right. The early ones were all hand assembled

250swb · Apr 21, 2023

Components nowadays are made to closer tolerances and harder materials, so should that be seen as a bad idea? I remember when the M4-P was released and people moaned about it's steel gears not feeling as smooth as an M3 with comments that Leica had lost their way or cheapened the product, but you could now use a motor drive on an M camera! Sometimes the rose tinted spectacles cause the baby to be thrown out with the bathwater.

Nikon 2 · Apr 21, 2023

250swb said:
Components nowadays are made to closer tolerances and harder materials, so should that be seen as a bad idea? I remember when the M4-P was released and people moaned about it's steel gears not feeling as smooth as an M3 with comments that Leica had lost their way or cheapened the product, but you could now use a motor drive on an M camera! Sometimes the rose tinted spectacles cause the baby to be thrown out with the bathwater.

Leica M-A vs M2/3

ericdan

Theo Sulphate

chip j

Ko.Fe.

Patrick Robert James

jimjm

btaylor

ericdan

ericdan

chip j

Huss

ericdan

Huss

Chan Tran

logan2z

NB23

NB23

Huss

Patrick Robert James

Nikon 2

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Huss

Nikon 2

GregY

250swb

Nikon 2

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Leica M-A vs M2/3

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