Leica IIIc any good?

Hey guys,

I was wondering if the Leica IIIc RF any good?

Todd

welcome.
Good for what type of work? Tiny finder, otherwise a nice slow rangfinder.

I love mine and use it a lot. It was made during WW2.


Kent in SD

General use.. How are the image quality?

I have a bad feeling about this

The lens and 99% more importantly, /you/ have more to do with the pictures in the end.

Are you buying one?

IMO, Here is the deal: LTM lenses are excellent,good,so-so, and bad. it depends on each lens you look at. The camera body, really doesn't matter. IIIC, IIIF, IIIG, ( barnacks) types. or Canon P, or whatever 1940-1960 screw mount cameras. leica lenses from that era have a . . . . . . . .. "something" . Other people say "other camera lenses" are as good, some people say "no way". Each one of those persons will go down fighting to the last man standing. some people are really passionate about LTM lenses, while others prefer M mount lenses. IF YOU HAVE TIME, about 90,000 years, you can read the debates over at rangefinder forum. see the latest squabble over . . . .. . . . . .. . yawn. If you can buy one for about 200-500 bucks, a excellent lens. clean. . . . another 300-1000. OR if you are lucky( this just happened last week, in my hometown) you can find on craigslist a red dot self timer IIIf for 175 with lens! (3.5 elmar). THERE are soo sooo sooo many choices in lenses out there.

I May have an opportunity to pick one up from local guy for $300.00.. Think I should jump? or let it go?

Todd

http://albuquerque.craigslist.org/pho/4659002779.html


Here is the listing. Let me know.

It all depends on condition. It may look great on the outside but if the shutters are torn, if it all hole burned in through the shutters, no.

Its worth looking at at that price if you'd really like shooting with an ancient rangefinder.

Assume any 50+ year old camera or lens you buy is going to need a CLA. Otherwise known as a clean lube adjust.

"Image quality" means different things to different people. I prefer a lower contrast, softer look when I shoot vintage cameras. If I wanted high contrast and razor sharpness across the frame I'd just use my Nikon D7100. I happen to like the look of the images made with my LTM lenses. Value depends on its condition, and its age. The ones made before 1946 are a bit more valuable. Camera was made until somewhere around 1954. The serial number can be looked up online.


Kent in SD

ToddB said:

http://albuquerque.craigslist.org/pho/4659002779.html

Here is the listing. Let me know.

Click to expand...

Interesting -- the serial number puts it as a 1946/47 camera and a IIIc, but the flash delay dial under the speed dial indicates a IIIf -- this camera has been factory updated with a flash added. This was a very common thing to do, but it also means this camera is 10 years newer than you thought.

So it is, essentially, a IIIf, black dial.

$350 for the camera and lens is a good price IF the camera is in good working order.

Shooting a IIIc/f is a bit fiddly -- the rangefinder and viewfinder are separate. The film loads weird. The viewfinder takes a little getting used to because it is not as precise as later types. You have to make sure you don't touch the spinning shutter speed knob with your gloved hand.

Otherwise, not bad shooters, fun to use. Excellent images if you are an excellent photographer. As a rule, if the lens is clear and clean, it will perform as new, which was not half bad.

Aw Man!

Don't let these goofballs scare you.

These are awesome machines. The biggest downfall is that they are addictive as all get out. Kind of like Lays chips, you can't have just one!

Film loads from the bottom, takes about a day to learn how to do it.

One window is for the rangefinder and the other is for composing the shot. Takes a couple of rolls to learn how to move from one to the other.

They are entirely manual and they are not so quick as other, newer, rangefinder designs. But in less than a month you will be wondering what all the fuss was about.

They are old. Yours may need a tune up. Send it to Youxin Ye and he will do it for a good price.

There are thousands of lenses available out there. For starters go buy a clean Elmar 50mm f3.5 and send it to Youxin for cleaning and lubrication.

Then shoot the set and enjoy. You will figure out soon enough what else you might want.

But be careful...along with representing the beginning of 35mm as envisioned by Barnack and Ernst Leitz, and the finest built cameras available at the time and maybe for all time, they are very, very addictive!

Of course, owning one won't make you a better photographer...just a very happy one.

It's about time there was a bit more optimism on APUG Dan, well done.

I'll just add the camera has a Summitar f/2 lens, which if you frequent a certain 'rangefinder' forum is the cult classic of the moment, and at the current price makes the camera a bargain. Indeed if in good condition it could be worth the price alone. Actually it is a good lens, sharper than a f/3.5 Elmar at around f/5.6 and a bit soft wide open but with a swirly bokeh that you either love or find annoying.

Steve

ToddB said:

http://albuquerque.craigslist.org/pho/4659002779.html


Here is the listing. Let me know.

Click to expand...

There is something wrong with this Summitar.
The edges of the front lens are either hazed or early stage fungus.

If somebody is selling you a camera and he didn't took a few shots of just the lens optics end-to-end with a flash light - you are in for a surprise.

Leica IIIc is more than good.

georg16nik said:

There is something wrong with this Summitar.
The edges of the front lens are either hazed or early stage fungus.
.

Click to expand...

It may well be the case, but I can't interpret that from the photo. Are you sure you aren't just seeing the smaller diameter inner light baffle that is positioned behind the front element making a reflection? But yes, better pictures would be good.

Steve

250swb said:

It may well be the case, but I can't interpret that from the photo. Are you sure you aren't just seeing the smaller diameter inner light baffle that is positioned behind the front element making a reflection? But yes, better pictures would be good.

Steve

Click to expand...

Pay close attention to the edge area of the front lens, its matted.
It should be as reflective as the central portion.

I'll look at it Monday evening.

Condition is everything. A IIIc and Summitar in perfect working condition is a fine workhorse of a camera. The IIIc and the improved IIIf were the best of very compact top quality rangefinder 35mm cameras. Often a seller doesn't know (or tell) of problems with body or lens. For prices, one can check completed ebay sales of comparable bodies and lenses, but again you are relying on the seller's description. Also, a camera that may not have been serviced in many decades may be about to fail for need of a CLA. The shutter in my pre-WWII Leica quit working, apparently due to lubrication problems, after only 50 or 60 years. Modern factory loaded 35mm film has a short tongue that complicates loading in bottom-load Leicas. One can either recut the tongue, or insert something like a business card in the film loading slot to guide the film past the film gate.

georg16nik said:

Pay close attention to the edge area of the front lens, its matted.
It should be as reflective as the central portion.

Click to expand...

I have played close attention, to the extent that it may just be dirty or a bad photograph, taking everything into account and considering the ambiance of the rest of the camera. It is 50/50 for sure, but putting people off isn't quite the same thing as considering the possibility that it's all good and to check it out before dumping the idea without ever finding out. Good grief, if you want to slit your wrists APUG is a great place to come for support......not.

Steve

As Jim Jones has mentioned, sellers do not always know about some of the problems with the cameras they are selling, or if they know, they tend to stay quiet about them. This is true of all old cameras. Fortunately Leica Barnack cameras are still repairable and serviceable, unlike many, many old cameras.

However, there are things you can do to conduct a quick and dirty assessment.
1- Check the lens by removing it from the camera and looking through it with a flashlight. Some dust or scratches on the front element are not a problem. A heavy haze can mean a cleaning is needed. Spider webbing or etching on the glass is a problem and may not be repairable. Deep scratching should be avoided as well though even this doesn't make the lens unusable.

2 - While the lens is off wind the shutter and check it. Looking at the top there is a lever on the right with A and R visible on the top plate. Make sure the lever is pointed at A. Wind the large knob on the right that has a skirt with numbers below it. This cocks the shutter and advances the film. While winding look through the hole where the lens was. A black curtain at the back will move. Watch for holes in the curtain and watch to see that the joint between the two curtains is together when it goes by. Once it is wound check that the front shutter dial is on "30" and then set the top shutter dial to 1000. The shutter should fire quickly with very little gap in the join point. Wind the shutter again and set the dial at 30 on the top dial. Press the button again. You should be able to see a definite gap between the two curtains as the shutter goes by. Now wind it again and, with the top dial still at "30", set the front dial to 2 or 1 and press the shutter button again. The shutter should fire, and there should be a definitive wait of approximately a second for the shutter to close again. You should also hear a buzzing noise. This is the delay mechanism and it should be smooth with no hesitation. Finally, wind the shutter once more. Return the front shutter dial to "30." Now rotate the top shutter dial to "B". When you press the shutter button this time, hold it down. Don't release it. The shutter should stay open for as long as you keep the shutter button held down. While the shutter is being held open, look at the metal piece behind it. That is the pressure plate and it should look smooth with no gouges or bad scratches. Release the button and let the shutter close.

3 - Now thread the lens back onto the camera. Pick the camera up and look through each of the two windows in the back. The one on the right gives you a view of the scene you are looking at. Though it is small it should provide a clear view. The one on the left will be magnified and is the one you will use to focus. Move the lens back and forth while looking though the left window. You should easily see a double image come and go as you turn the lens. If it is too blurry you will want to turn the lever underneath the lefthand knob until it gets clearer. If you still don't see a double image, or it is very, very faint, this could be a problem. If it is clear and easy to see then the rangefinder is in decent shape. Bringing the double image together in the rangefinder window is how you focus the camera. It is possible it will need adjustment but it will not need repair.

4 - That is about it. You can turn the camera over, turn the latch and pull off the bottom. Check that there is a spool on one side for loading your film.

If the camera passes all these tests then it will likely be a reliable workhorse. Outside appearance is secondary for me but it may be important to you. If so, be aware that these cameras had problems with chrome peeling off. In addition, the vulcanite (the black, leather looking covering) gets brittle and can start chipping away. None of this will effect how it works, but it may effect how you feel about the camera.

Good luck on Monday.

Some of the 1946/47 batches of IIIc cameras suffered from bad chrome yes, usually worsened by the owners keeping the camera in the leather case for 50+ years. If it hasn't started flaking off yet it'll be one with good chrome.

If all the things listed above by Dan check out I think you have found a IIIc/f conversion for very fair price.

I let it go.. I really want a single stroke M3. Still looking.

Todd