Leica II CLA Problems

[anfenglin]

Hi all,

I am up to my elbows in the CLA of my newly aquired Leica II with slow speeds, so thechnically, it is a III now. But that's not the important bit.

It is black, has been used quite a lot but I don't mind, I like used things. The thing is, it has been stored improperly for quite some time, it is slightly corroded here and there.
The faster speeds from 1/60 and faster work perfectly, the curtains are light tight, even the 1/500th works.
Mostly though, when using the slower speeds, the shutter stays partly open and only closes when the finger is taken off the shutter button.
I've taken the camera apart yesterday and I already cleaned the slow speeds mechanism, that wouldn't budge.
I saw that the speed mechanism was quite dirty with old grease, I cleaned it, regreased it and fired the camera a number of times. It got somewhat better before it got worse again.

I'm not sure if the speed mechanism is the only problem or if there also is something wrong with the whole shutter button release mechanism, if it only is a matter of dirt or lubricant or if maybe the corrosion is keeping everything from running problem free.
I suspect I used the wrong lubricant for the shutter speed mechanism, this morning, the shutter problems are back.
What kind of lube would I use for the ideal function?
Who is experienced in servicing a thread mount Leica?

I have quite the experience in servicing manual lenses and mechanisms, I also know how to service leaf shutter and such so I know my way around mechanics, at least up until now.
Any help would really be appreciated, I wouldn't want to send the camera out for repair, I fear a Leica repair premium.
Have a great day!

 

[GregW]

I would soak the slow speed governor in a solvent- benzene etc with a tiny bit of light machine oil in it like 3%. Grease is too thick. I also see a lot of dust. Looks like it needs a deeper clean.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

As GregW said, lots of dust.
The spring rollers of the shutter will need to be disassembled, springs cleaned and lightly lubricated with a medium watch oil, then the rollers reassembled and the shafts lubricated with light watch oil. The winding train of gears likewise, lubricate their pivot points with light watch oil and leave the teeth clean and dry. The only place to use any grease at all is where the lever from the slow speed escapement engages the cam under the speed dial, and this should be a very very light grease applied sparingly, just enough to moisten the parts.The slow speed escapement should be cleaned, degreased, and only the pivots of the gears and rod which leads to the top of the camera lubricated with light watch oil. The release mechanism, bottom of camera, and shaft and gears which wind the shutter again lubricated with light watch oil. Apply only a tiny amount of oil with a watch oiler and loupe, less is more. Too much oil will creep away from where it is needed, you need to be able to see, so use a loupe say 6x. Never grease or otherwise lubricate the gear teeth, the grease/oil will attract dirt and wear the teeth much faster than if they are left dry. Thr curtains are not closing due to the winding gears and release mechanism being dirty, at the point of closing it is no longer connected to the slow speed escapement. On the faster speeds the momentum of the moving parts is closing it. Dirt and bad lubricants = friction, you have to get rid of the dirt and degraded lubricants first, then lubricate.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Agree with post above.
It isn't much about lubrication, first, but first of all it is about cleaning. It must be cleaned just like leaf shutter or lens helicoud. Completely. Not only slow speed part, but rollers inside of shutter curtains drums.
I don't think here is II service manual on-line, but IIIf is available. It is different, but close enough for "principals".
http://www.pentax-manuals.com/manuals/service/leica_iiif.pdf

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Agree with post above.
It isn't much about lubrication, first, but first of all it is about cleaning. It must be cleaned just like leaf shutter or lens helicoud. Completely. Not only slow speed part, but rollers inside of shutter curtains drums.
I don't think here is II service manual on-line, but IIIf is available. It is different, but close enough for "principals".
http://www.pentax-manuals.com/manuals/service/leica_iiif.pdf

Yes, the "C" comes before the "L" in CLA, does it not? Everything must be clean and free of any lubricant film - old lubricants can leave a very persistent deposit. Ultrasonic non painted parts in lacquer thinner, then in naphtha, rinse in clean naphtha, and peg out all pivot holes. Pivots can be cleaned by pushing them into a clean cork and twisting, then brush and blow to remove an particles. Handle parts with pin vices and tweezers, not your fingers.

 

[anfenglin]

Thanks all!

I've cleaned and cleaned again, in the end used brake cleaner and all oily smeary residue is gone. The dust, too.
I've already cleaned the slow speed mechanism, it works perfectly now.
I've oiled the shutter speeds mechanism and the rod connecting the slow speeds very lightly using Ballistol, all speeds work now.
I now have a film in it to test everything and the see if it all pans out.
If not, I'll send it off for a service.
cheers

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Well, it sound like great job! For now. If you see all speeds working, the test with film will reveal if curtains tension is right, no pinholes in them and lens/RF are aligned.

Fingers crossed!

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Thanks all!

I've cleaned and cleaned again, in the end used brake cleaner and all oily smeary residue is gone. The dust, too.
I've already cleaned the slow speed mechanism, it works perfectly now.
I've oiled the shutter speeds mechanism and the rod connecting the slow speeds very lightly using Ballistol, all speeds work now.
I now have a film in it to test everything and the see if it all pans out.
If not, I'll send it off for a service.
cheers

I'm not familiar with Ballistol.
The reason I recommended watch oil is a) it is a synthetic oil and lasts far longer than the old animal and vegetable based oils, and b) it stays put without spreading, as long as it is applied to clean surfaces. Mineral oils applied to untreated surfaces will spread, leaving the pivot dry and creeping to where it is not wanted or needed.

Ballistol - https://ballistol.com/about-us/ Not what I would have chosen. Pure Neat'sfoot oil would be a better choice, though far from ideal.