Leica Fotografie article on film developers

hansbeckert · Oct 28, 2004

Ed Sukach said:
... So, your idea and mine of "Best" are not the same. The revelation of that bit of information doesn't exactly turn my world upside down.

Obviously our ideas of a "clear winner" are not the same either.

Just don't use the word "proof". I break out into hives when I read that word.

I prefer non-solvent developers (the class into which Rodinal falls) to solvent ones (D-76, etc.) for my work. Among these, Rodinal ranks VERY low in several of the most important areas by measurement and by eye. What more remains to be said? So, I prefer developers of the Rodinal class, but Rodinal is one of the worst in its class.

hansbeckert · Oct 28, 2004

Ed Sukach said:
... So, your idea and mine of "Best" are not the same. The revelation of that bit of information doesn't exactly turn my world upside down.

Obviously our ideas of a "clear winner" are not the same either.

Just don't use the word "proof". I break out into hives when I read that word.

Can you say 'clear loser'?

hansbeckert · Oct 28, 2004

Tom Hoskinson said:
Ah yes, the reference, a possibility of some experimental data. Let's see:

The authors describe this document as a survey, as such, it does not purport to describe a set of controlled experiments and their results. That is good, because the survey has:

No discernable experimental design.
No control samples
No objective standards
Developer dilutions (some are given, some are not)

So what? The procedures are valid for the kind of testing this is.

moose10101 · Oct 28, 2004

So is this the same "Hans Beckert" who was thrown off photo.net because he insisted on pizzing all over the discussion forums?

http://www.photo.net/shared/community-member?user_id=836377

If so, he's also worn out his welcome as "Michael Scarpitti" on both photo.net and the Google photo groups. Since joining yesterday, Hans, you've managed nearly 50 posts, mostly claiming that Rodinal is overrated. Please relieve yourself elsewhere.

Max Power · Oct 28, 2004

moose10101 said:
So is this the same "Hans Beckert" who was thrown off photo.net because he insisted on pizzing all over the discussion forums?

http://www.photo.net/shared/community-member?user_id=836377

If so, he's also worn out his welcome as "Michael Scarpitti" on both photo.net and the Google photo groups. Since joining yesterday, Hans, you've managed nearly 50 posts, mostly claiming that Rodinal is overrated. Please relieve yourself elsewhere.

Sorry for the stupid question...But on the other thread I guessed that Hans Beckert was Sir Michael from the Ilford group...
He's not really, is he???

hansbeckert · Oct 28, 2004

moose10101 said:
So is this the same "Hans Beckert" who was thrown off photo.net because he insisted on pizzing all over the discussion forums?

http://www.photo.net/shared/community-member?user_id=836377

If so, he's also worn out his welcome as "Michael Scarpitti" on both photo.net and the Google photo groups. Since joining yesterday, Hans, you've managed nearly 50 posts, mostly claiming that Rodinal is overrated. Please relieve yourself elsewhere.

Are you interested in learning anything or not?

David A. Goldfarb · Oct 28, 2004

Here's the real Hans Beckert, as played by Peter Lorre:

fingel · Oct 28, 2004

I really don't see how this 36 year old chart is relevant to modern photography as most of the films shown don't even exist anymore. The ones that do have almost certainly been reformulated to meet current environmental standards in Europe and the U.S.

Manufacturing procedures have changed. Changes in coating technology would also have an effect on the results, just look at the difference in times for the new Plus-x and Tri-x. Dr5 says the new plus x looks much better in their process than it used to, and Kodak claims that they didn't reformulate it, just updated the film making equipment.

So I guess if they were to re-create their tests using modern films and developers it would be a more useful chart, but in my opinion it's irrelevant.

clogz · Oct 28, 2004

Well , Fingel, I think this sums it all up. Gentlemen, I'm off to the "Lens and Tripod" pub for a pint and perhaps a nice malt whisky and a cigar. Anybody care to join me?

David A. Goldfarb · Oct 28, 2004

Not a smoker myself, but I'll have a Laphroaig, neat of course.

TPPhotog · Oct 28, 2004

clogz said:
Well , Fingel, I think this sums it all up. Gentlemen, I'm off to the "Lens and Tripod" pub for a pint and perhaps a nice malt whisky and a cigar. Anybody care to join me?

On me way Hans, and I have the latest issue of The Rodinal Independant News under my arm

Tom Hoskinson · Oct 28, 2004

Think I'll have myself a small jar of Highland Park - with bit of Rodinal for my FP4.

roteague · Oct 28, 2004

hansbeckert said:
Can you say 'clear loser'?

Does it really matter? Photography, like any other art form is subjective. If someone uses Rodinal and is happy with the end result, it shouldn't matter. If they want to test other developers, that is their choice; remember, not everyone wants to try something new. Some, just like to do things the way they have always done them, that's personal choice.

BTW, I really don't have an opinion one way or another on Rodinal since I shoot 99.5% Velvia F100.

moose10101 · Oct 28, 2004

hansbeckert said:
Are you interested in learning anything or not?

Yes, I am, and as soon as you get your sorry behind out of the way, I can resume the process.

hansbeckert · Oct 28, 2004

roteague said:
Does it really matter? Photography, like any other art form is subjective. If someone uses Rodinal and is happy with the end result, it shouldn't matter. If they want to test other developers, that is their choice; remember, not everyone wants to try something new. Some, just like to do things the way they have always done them, that's personal choice.

BTW, I really don't have an opinion one way or another on Rodinal since I shoot 99.5% Velvia F100.

It matters only in that many people hear about Rodinal from others who never have bothered to try other developers, because they themselves heard about it from others who never bothered to try other developers.....etc. In other words, it's a cult following. The product is not 'best in class'.

hansbeckert · Oct 28, 2004

moose10101 said:
Yes, I am, and as soon as you get your sorry behind out of the way, I can resume the process.

I answered a question for someone else who asked about this product. You are free, of course, to refuse to listen. You are not free, however, to try to silence me. Please remember that.

I provided the article for those who are interested. If you have contrary opinions, so what? If you have contrasting data, present them.

clogz · Oct 28, 2004

Meanwhile, back at the Lens & Tripod: It's my round. Same again? Ehh, talking about autumn...how lovely the morning sun strikes the dew on the grass. A bit of a challenge recording it on film.....(to be continued)

TPPhotog · Oct 28, 2004

clogz said:
Meanwhile, back at the Lens & Tripod: It's my round. Same again? Ehh, talking about autumn...how lovely the morning sun strikes the dew on the grass. A bit of a challenge recording it on film.....(to be continued)

Hans very true the autumn colours are beautiful but alas the storms here make it a little hard to see through the viewfinder at the moment. Also it was blooming dark so I think this call for a very large shot ..... My round I think

clogz · Oct 28, 2004

Yes, please. A short, I think. Famous Grouse. Got some change for the juke-box?....
Ah...F32 Stevie Wonder: He's Mister Know-it-All" Songs in the Key of Life. Rather appropriate. Now where were we..?

TPPhotog · Oct 28, 2004

clogz said:
Yes, please. A short, I think. Famous Grouse. Got some change for the juke-box?....
Ah...F32 Stevie Wonder: He's Mister Know-it-All" Songs in the Key of Life. Rather appropriate. Now where were we..?

Mmmmm how about a nice vintage Macallan? and maybe something by Black eyed Pea's on the old duke?

clogz · Oct 28, 2004

Yes, a Macallan. Why not? Hey, there's this song here on the machine. "If I don't listen, will the music pass me by" from the "Blinkered" album by the Puritans. I know you got a pocketful of change,....(to be continued)

TPPhotog · Oct 28, 2004

clogz said:
Yes, a Macallan. Why not? Hey, there's this song here on the machine. "If I don't listen, will the music pass me by" from the "Blinkered" album by the Puritans. I know you got a pockeful of change,....(to be continued)

Here you go chink chink .... have you noticed how much the vintage bottle of Macallan on my avatar looks just like an old bottle of the amber nectar Rodinal?

clogz · Oct 28, 2004

You know..I bet it's really the same stuff....makes you sharp on the night...leaves this grainy feeling in the morning...

Jorge · Oct 28, 2004

I think I will join you guys with my glass of glennmorangie with a dash of rodinal....hhmmm-mmmmm.....So the jug I was sending Tony will just have a tiny bit less...

TPPhotog · Oct 28, 2004

clogz said:
You know..I bet it's really the same stuff....makes you sharp on the night...leaves this grainy feeling in the morning...

ROFLOL and PMSL !!!!

Jorge your more than welcome to join us ... bottoms up!

Leica Fotografie article on film developers

hansbeckert

hansbeckert

hansbeckert

moose10101

Max Power

hansbeckert

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

fingel

clogz

David A. Goldfarb

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TPPhotog

Tom Hoskinson

roteague

moose10101

hansbeckert

hansbeckert

clogz

TPPhotog

clogz

TPPhotog

clogz

TPPhotog

clogz

Jorge

TPPhotog

Leica Fotografie article on film developers

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