Leica film leader template - suggestions ?

Hassasin · Jan 24, 2024

So I have a Leica IIIC with Summitar arriving shortly, and possibly will get one of the earlier M's at some point, and the questions are:

are all these cameras take in same leader length, or is there a variation? I have read a post somewhere last night where a guy had to play around with leader length before he got one of his LTM bodies to accept the film as properly loaded. I find this whole thing strange, to say the least, but all I know is what I read, yet there are a lot Leica users here, so am hoping for some consensus on this issue (BTW, I have read and understood official film loading instructions, am yet to do first roll anyways, just saying), and to add, I am planning to add at least one or two more LTM bodies, "If" being one of them
while a leader can be trimmed manually, looks like having a template is the way to get this in a repeatable fashion, I don't think I'm going for the original (unless a reasonably priced one comes along), any suggestions which template works well?

logan2z · Jan 24, 2024

Hassasin said:
while a leader can be trimmed manually, looks like having a template is the way to get this in a repeatable fashion, I don't think I'm going for the original (unless a reasonably priced one comes along), any suggestions which template works well?

Have you tried this one? I can't vouch for it as I don't have a need to trim leaders, but it was posted on the Leica User's Forum a while back and looked pretty well done.

Ballinderry-Michael · Jan 24, 2024

I simply pull out the leader until 23 sprocket holes are exposed and then trim with small scissors. With a little practice you'll find whether you prefer to trim from the free ot the cassette end.

Hassasin · Jan 24, 2024

logan2z said:
Have you tried this one? I can't vouch for it as I don't have a need to trim leaders, but it was posted on the Leica User's Forum a while back and looked pretty well done.

Sadly that link appears dead.

Hassasin · Jan 24, 2024

Ballinderry-Michael said:
I simply pull out the leader until 23 sprocket holes are exposed and then trim with small scissors. With a little practice you'll find whether you prefer to trim from the free ot the cassette end.

I figured manual trimming is not a high science project, and TBH I don't think I'm going to need a lot of it to start (unless a Barnack gets me going and moves my "loyalty" away from others). But that's main reason original Leitz template is not a consideration at current calling prices.

Ballinderry-Michael · Jan 24, 2024

Hassasin said:
Sadly that link appears dead.

You have to register for that forum in order to see the file. I'll try attaching it (though the template needs to be made from materials that aren't in every household).

logan2z · Jan 24, 2024

Hassasin said:
Sadly that link appears dead.

Sorry, I didn't realize you needed to be registered on LUF in order to download it. But it looks like @Ballinderry-Michael has attached the file to his forum post above (thanks!).

Hassasin · Jan 24, 2024

Ballinderry-Michael said:
You have to register for that forum in order to see the file. I'll try attaching it (though the template needs to be made from materials that aren't in every household).

Thanks, will probably join that forum too, but this is all I need right now, seems like easy way to get started.

Don_ih · Jan 24, 2024

I put the cassette between thumb and forefinger in my left hand, pull film out until it crosses my hand, and cut that much with scissors. It takes a second. But I've done it hundreds of times. The end doesn't need to be rounded - I leave it square.

Mr Flibble · Jan 24, 2024

When I'm not in a hurry I don't even bother to trim the film to load an LTM Leica. I remove the lens and guide the film into place through the open shutter.

awty · Jan 24, 2024

Scissors! That's fancy, I've just been tearing with my fingers.

Don_ih · Jan 24, 2024

awty said:
I've just been tearing with my fingers.

Well, this guy is about to cut off the tip of his thumb.

guangong · Jan 24, 2024

I simply lay tongue on flat surface and cut between sprocket holes with small blade of Swiss army knife. Shape of cut leader not critical. Just be sure long enough. I recently bought a trimming guide from Lifestyle and will probably use after loading bunch of my Leitz cassettes in future.
Keep in mind that in the not distant past all 35mm film came with long leader and no trimming necessary. I suspect that leaders were shortened for automatic loading cameras.

titrisol · Jan 24, 2024

You can cut it easily, but if you want there is a 3D printed ALBON, works great:

Leica ABLON style film leader trimming guide. by PariahProps

This film leader trimming guide is my take on the original Leica ABLON metal version. Old bottom loading Leicas need a much longer film leader than is cut into modern 35mm film, the guide helps to get the right shape to prevent things going awry in your camera.Some people will sneer and say...

www.thingiverse.com

or this simple one:

Leica III film cutting tool by diygallery

A super-simple tool to cut film for old Leica screwmount camera

www.thingiverse.com

Hassasin · Jan 24, 2024

titrisol said:
You can cut it easily, but if you want there is a 3D printed ALBON, works great:

Leica ABLON style film leader trimming guide. by PariahProps

This film leader trimming guide is my take on the original Leica ABLON metal version. Old bottom loading Leicas need a much longer film leader than is cut into modern 35mm film, the guide helps to get the right shape to prevent things going awry in your camera.Some people will sneer and say...

www.thingiverse.com

or this simple one:

Leica III film cutting tool by diygallery

A super-simple tool to cut film for old Leica screwmount camera

www.thingiverse.com

Thanks too, all worth having on file.

chuckroast · Jan 24, 2024

Hassasin said:
So I have a Leica IIIC with Summitar arriving shortly, and possibly will get one of the earlier M's at some point, and the questions are:

are all these cameras take in same leader length, or is there a variation? I have read a post somewhere last night where a guy had to play around with leader length before he got one of his LTM bodies to accept the film as properly loaded. I find this whole thing strange, to say the least, but all I know is what I read, yet there are a lot Leica users here, so am hoping for some consensus on this issue (BTW, I have read and understood official film loading instructions, am yet to do first roll anyways, just saying), and to add, I am planning to add at least one or two more LTM bodies, "If" being one of them

while a leader can be trimmed manually, looks like having a template is the way to get this in a repeatable fashion, I don't think I'm going for the original (unless a reasonably priced one comes along), any suggestions which template works well?

I have always used a template with my IIIf. When I got an M2 - which loads very similarly to the IIIf - I tried it without cutting a long leader and it worked just fine. Of course, the M2 has a back door to make sure everything is seating properly, but I wonder if you really need the long leader or can just carefully use a normal one on the III body...

Hassasin · Jan 24, 2024

chuckroast said:
I have always used a template with my IIIf. When I got an M2 - which loads very similarly to the IIIf - I tried it without cutting a long leader and it worked just fine. Of course, the M2 has a back door to make sure everything is seating properly, but I wonder if you really need the long leader or can just carefully use a normal one on the III body...

Story I read yesterday was that the guy was messing around with leader length, because he could not get one of his III's to take film up properly and said: needed 2 extra sprocket holes from Leica suggested length in order to get things corrected. I still fail to understand how.

I can see when film is not cut for leader to only have sprocket holes on one side, to ease engagement/alignment with sprocket wheel, until camera is closed and can be wound to first frame, and I guess that's how going through front end to wiggle film around inside the film chamber came about.

On the other hand, I suppose if you want to shoot a Leica "correctly" you've got to load it as Leica said you should, otherwise what comes out is not a 100% Leica photograph

chuckroast · Jan 24, 2024

Hassasin said:
Story I read yesterday was that the guy was messing around with leader length, because he could not get one of his III's to take film up properly and said: needed 2 extra sprocket holes from Leica suggested length in order to get things corrected. I still fail to understand how.

I can see when film is not cut for leader to only have sprocket holes on one side, to ease engagement/alignment with sprocket wheel, until camera is closed and can be wound to first frame, and I guess that's how going through front end to wiggle film around inside the film chamber came about.

On the other hand, I suppose if you want to shoot a Leica "correctly" you've got to load it as Leica said you should, otherwise what comes out is not a 100% Leica photograph

I just tried loading a roll of 24 exposure out of date Tri-X into the IIIf without cutting a leader. It worked just fine. You just have to make sure that everything is seated properly before you close up the camera.

I wonder why Leica ever recommended the longer leader cut...

mshchem · Jan 24, 2024

chuckroast said:
I just tried loading a roll of 24 exposure out of date Tri-X into the IIIf without cutting a leader. It worked just fine. You just have to make sure that everything is seated properly before you close up the camera.

I wonder why Leica ever recommended the longer leader cut...

To be able to clear the innards of the camera when loading. You have to clear the sprockets.

chuckroast · Jan 24, 2024

mshchem said:
To be able to clear the innards of the camera when loading. You have to clear the sprockets.

Can you say a bit more about this please. What do you mean by "clear the innards" and "clear the sprockets"?

What I just did was thread a normal leader tongue into the takeup spool and left enough slack so I could insert the film cartridge and spool into the camera with the film not quite touching the sprockets. Then I tightened the takeup knob to put tension on the film (and make sure the leader was in snug on the takeup reel) and made sure the sprokets and film were properly engaged. This seemed to work fine.

Hassasin · Jan 24, 2024

Possibly Leica was worried that not having long leader would potentially damage top edge of film when being moved into the camera over the sprockets, which might lead to small chunks of film breaking off and eventually causing other problems inside. Just guessing.

Don_ih · Jan 24, 2024

Well, You can just try a short leader in a thread-mount Leica. The things that sometimes occur are the film gets chewed up and you need bits of film cleaned out of the camera or the film gets shredded and ends up going in the shutter curtain.

titrisol · Jan 24, 2024

Hassasin said:
Possibly Leica was worried that not having long leader would potentially damage top edge of film when being moved into the camera over the sprockets, which might lead to small chunks of film breaking off and eventually causing other problems inside. Just guessing.

SOme people have mastered loading the short leader into the Leica.
I don't risk it and use the old school leader

Cutting Leica Leader and Leica film loading

Don_ih · Jan 24, 2024

The sprocket at the top of the camera does not allow the film to slip over it - it has to feed onto the sprocket holes laterally. There is also the possibility that a short leader could have the point of the film (where it becomes full width again) pierce the shutter cloth. Which would you rather cut? Film leaders or shutter curtains?

Hassasin · Jan 24, 2024

Don_ih said:
The sprocket at the top of the camera does not allow the film to slip over it - it has to feed onto the sprocket holes laterally. There is also the possibility that a short leader could have the point of the film (where it becomes full width again) pierce the shutter cloth. Which would you rather cut? Film leaders or shutter curtains?

This is all good and as suspected. Leitz could have been more particular explaining the long leader, but. maybe that would put some potential buyers off ? I'm pretty set I will follow proper technique to load a film in.

Leica film leader template - suggestions ?

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