Leica Experience Days 2019: Analogue Photography

AgX · Oct 1, 2019

If one reads 10 year old listings of film camera repairers made by various german authors the majority of these firms no longer exists. The last one to close was Grah in Duisburg.
And Baier, known to some of us, called publicly for a successor, in vain.

If you know german film camera repair shops having started within the last 3 years, please report them.

guangong · Oct 1, 2019

Henning Serger said:
I am much more optimistic concerning your second comment: Because I don't see any reason why new film cameras should be worse in craftmanship in comparison to current ones. Why should e.g. a Nikon F7 be worse built than a F6? Nikon has improved the F6 significantly compared to the F5 in more than 20 parameters, including mechanics (I know for sure, I am using both). And I don't see any reason why a F7 should not be a camera on the highest quality level. And why should a Nikon FM4a be worse than a FM3a?
Or why should a new film Leica be worse than their current film models?
Or a new Cosina/Voigtländer worse than their last ones?
Manufacturers know that their customers have certain expectations. And that they have to deliver to be successful.

Best regards,
Henning

The only Nikons I have are F, F2 and Nikomat EL, so I have not used the Nikon models you mentioned. Can they work without batteries? My worst photographic experience was battery failure =camera failure, when a personally important picture disappeared forever.kp
Most likely any new film cameras sold by Nikon by now are remainders. Profit margins much higher on digital cameras, and would be higher still if not for need to keep up with added applications introduced by competitors. Not necessarily improvements, but necessary for advertising.
Leica began cutting corners beginning with M6. Today’s Leica market strategy is selling to that segment that wants the best I.e. the most expensive, and for whom buying a new Leica and lenses is pocket change. There are enough of these customers, as with Leica previous owner Hermès, to succeed commercially.
I have Voigtlander R2a. An ok camera but build quality nowhere near my Leica M3,M4, or
Leicaflexes.
Keep in mind that the reason we have so many choices on the used market today is because for many during the 1970s and 80s a high end camera was an often barely used fashion accessory, Will that market reappear? Without it, will the film market market be large enough to begin manufacturing your F6?
Despite my remarks, I really hope that you assessment is correct.

Henning Serger · Oct 1, 2019

AgX said:
If one reads 10 year old listings of film camera repairers made by various german authors the majority of these firms no longer exists.

Wrong.
1. We are talking about the film revival. That happened in the last 3-4 years (based on global film sales numbers), and it is in its beginnings, but getting stronger. Ten years ago is the wrong time point for comparison.
2. I do have these lists, too. And it is simply wrong that the majority (= more than 50%) no longer exists.

AgX said:
If you know german film camera repair shops having started within the last 3 years, please report them.

Click&Surr, Buschmann and a new Rolleiflex repair specialist in NRW (forgotten the name, stumbled on him on instagram, but didn't click the follow button).

Best regards,
Henning

AgX · Oct 1, 2019

Thank you.
I was not aware of Click&Surr offering repairs other repairing for their own means. And they are located in Berlin which is a special case for film anyway.
The other two I was not aware of at all.

BradS · Oct 1, 2019

NB23 said:
Firstly, the used market is massive. Deep. Endless.

...and mostly full of junk that is in desperate need of maintenance service at minimum.

NB23 said:
Secondly, a used camera that was 150 rolls away from breaking was, as a matter of fact, 2 months away from being replaced. This same camera, today, is easily 5 to 10 years away from being replaced in the hands of the average user/hipster/student/coolster/poseur/artist. Any Nikon on the used market, even the cheapest, can beat through the next 500 rolls like nothing. That’s a lifetime of “heavy use” in today’s film usage standards.

Hmmm....well, maybe but, I prefer to actually have some confidence that the machine will not self destruct at any moment. I'd prefer to use a camera that I can be confident will make it through the roll, will survive the trip, will not fall apat in my hands, will not shed mirror foam all over itself and FOD the shutter and ruin my photos.

NB23 said:
Thirdly, Cosina can start production whenever it wishes.

What evidence can you offer to support this claim?
It seems very unlikely to me. The workers are gone, laid off, the supply chain...gone too. Likely, capital equipment has been scrapped.

Helios 1984 · Oct 1, 2019

cmacd123 said:
Excellent! the idea is spreading it seems. Thank you! I did post a link to that video in a facebook camera interest group.

Their teacher, Mr.Taguchi, worked for Kitamura Camera for decades and has a blog hosted on Kitamura.jp with hundreds of repair articles.
The gentleman at 5:58 has a channel on youtube "daitocamera" with over 600 repair videos.

I believe there is a growing interest in repairing/restoring the old instead of throwing it away. Maybe you've heard of the Repair Café ?

AgX · Oct 2, 2019

Helios 1984 said:
I believe there is a growing interest in repairing/restoring the old instead of throwing it away. Maybe you've heard of the Repair Café ?

I see that interest at best at some few people (at best called multiplicators of ideas). A repair cafe consisting of 4 tinkerers once a month for 4 hours in a city of several hundred thousand is not even that drop in the ocean.
I repair things since my childhood, hardly buy new appliences. Already as a teenager I realized the lack of knowledge of designing engineers. Today added by experiencing more and more appliances designed in a way blocking a repair. Partially for economics of assembly, partially by intent.
But this is no new thing. I know cameras from the 30s being a nightmare to repair.

Ko.Fe. · Oct 2, 2019

Helios 1984 said:
Their teacher, Mr.Taguchi, worked for Kitamura Camera for decades and has a blog hosted on Kitamura.jp with hundreds of repair articles.
The gentleman at 5:58 has a channel on youtube "daitocamera" with over 600 repair videos.

I believe there is a growing interest in repairing/restoring the old instead of throwing it away. Maybe you've heard of the Repair Café ?

I'm often find help on this one:
https://www.youtube.com/user/mikeno62/videos

Helios 1984 · Oct 2, 2019

AgX said:
I see that interest at best at some few people (at best called multiplicators of ideas). A repair cafe consisting of 4 tinkerers once a month for 4 hours in a city of several hundred thousand is not even that drop in the ocean.

If you want significant numbers, just have a look at the countless DIY tutorials on Youtube and on other platforms. There are tens of thousands interested in fixing anything and everything.
Not to mention all the folks who buy from thrift stores & re-use centres, giving a second life to discarded belongings.

AgX said:
I repair things since my childhood, hardly buy new appliences. Already as a teenager I realized the lack of knowledge of designing engineers. Today added by experiencing more and more appliances designed in a way blocking a repair. Partially for economics of assembly, partially by intent.
But this is no new thing. I know cameras from the 30s being a nightmare to repair.

Companies make their fortune with built-in obsolescence. We've had 3 Kitchenaid electric kettles during the past 6 years, their plastic base always ends up melting so we've purchased a good old stovetop kettle. If only modern appliances were built as good as my GE percolator from the 50s.

Ko.Fe. said:
I'm often find help on this one:
https://www.youtube.com/user/mikeno62/videos

Thanks, I subscribed for future consultation.

AgX · Oct 2, 2019

Helios, please be fair.
You explicetly hinted at repair cafes and I replied on that specific topic.

In pre-internet times there were repair guides too. For example in any book store you could get repair manuals for various models of cars. There even were public garages to repair ones car yourself. Who is repairing current cars himself today?

What I want to say is that things are changing, but I do not see a higher interest in self-repair today than decades ago.

Helios 1984 · Oct 3, 2019

AgX said:
Helios, please be fair.
You explicetly hinted at repair cafes and I replied on that specific topic.

In pre-internet times there were repair guides too. For example in any book store you could get repair manuals for various models of cars. There even were public garages to repair ones car yourself. Who is repairing current cars himself today?

What I want to say is that things are changing, but I do not see a higher interest in self-repair today than decades ago.

You forced my hand when you said "drop in the ocean", I had to use my trump card.
Don't forget microfiches. Back when I was in high school, there was a mechanic course next door and they had whole parts catalogues on microfiches. They also had these at the library. Those were the days.

AgX · Oct 3, 2019

I hope you are not surprised... I got two microfiche readers. One static, in monitor-style, the other mobile collapsable, in briefcase style.

Thus I even could do repairs on the run without internet, even without mains.
If I had the respective fiches...

Helios 1984 · Oct 5, 2019

AgX said:
I hope you are not surprised... I got two microfiche readers. One static, in monitor-style, the other mobile collapsable, in briefcase style.

Thus I even could do repairs on the run without internet, even without mains.
If I had the respective fiches...

I had a feeling you’d say that. I’ve read that they still archive documents with microfilm, difficult to beat a 500+ years lifespan.

fdonadio · Oct 5, 2019

Helios 1984 said:
I had a feeling you’d say that. I’ve read that they still archive documents with microfilm, difficult to beat a 500+ years lifespan.

And the fact that it really works when you need it. All right, I love searchable PDFs, but you can always find something if you know what and how to look for.

cmacd123 · Oct 5, 2019

fdonadio said:
And the fact that it really works when you need it. All right, I love searchable PDFs, but you can always find something if you know what and how to look for.

Fuji once had a product which took rolls of Microfilm in Catriges, with the image of a code beside each document image. One would search for the document you wanted, and the "Fuji M Drive" would load the right cartridge and wind until it saw the right code then would show the document image on a rear projection screen. At that point you could made a paper print.

believe that the technology was overtaken by computer storage. One DVD worth of scans now contains the equivalent of about 10 rolls of Microfilm, (or more) so Microfilm really only makes sense for holding long term documents.

fdonadio · Oct 5, 2019

cmacd123 said:
One DVD worth of scans now contains the equivalent of about 10 rolls of Microfilm

Yea, but I doubt the DVD will last 500 years.

Edit: I had read your post too fast and missed the end. Yes, it makes sense for long term storage, but isn’t it what we call “archiving”?

cmacd123 · Oct 5, 2019

fdonadio said:
Yea, but I doubt the DVD will last 500 years.

Edit: I had read your post too fast and missed the end. Yes, it makes sense for long term storage, but isn’t it what we call “archiving”?

Yes, the problem with all digital storage is both the longevity of the media, ( in digital that problem is multiplied because only a few small defects are enough to render a "record" readable.) But also the change of formats. PDF is relatively straightforward, but will software to read current files still exist in even 50 years? The other thing is that improvements in digital media may cause problems - There are several TV shows that were shot on film but edited in Standard definition television formats, and the producers ended up having to go back and cut the original Negatives to match the edits so they could be scanned (for current) HDTV. The 35mm film stands up to at least 4K without looking "antique".

sorry, I am mixing concepts from Documents (I worked a couple of years doing Microfilming of documents) , motion pictures and also still photography.

foc · Oct 6, 2019

Microfilm and microfiche are very simple but very effective.
They store a lot of info, are very stable and have a long lifespan.
And the best part is that all you need to access them is a light source and a magnifying glass.

cmacd123 · Oct 6, 2019

foc said:
Microfilm and microfiche are very simple
And the best part is that all you need to access them is a light source and a magnifying glass.

Plus, even with just a light you can generally tell you actually have some sort of document. pick up an old memory card and you can't even tell if anything is on it.

fdonadio · Oct 6, 2019

cmacd123 said:
sorry, I am mixing concepts from Documents (I worked a couple of years doing Microfilming of documents) , motion pictures and also still photography.

They do have something in common: all of them are now stored in digital format.

Well, I’ve heard (here) that Hollywood studios print the digital masters to film with color separation stock for archiving.

cmacd123 · Oct 6, 2019

fdonadio said:
They do have something in common: all of them are now stored in digital format.

Well, I’ve heard (here) that Hollywood studios print the digital masters to film with color separation stock for archiving.

I don't think the Piql { https://www.piql.com/ } really caught on for Movies. and even there you have a possibility of being limited by Digital Format issues.

the Piql grew out of the Cinevator to transfer digital Movies to 35mm print film. https://www.piql.com/cinevator/

BradS · Oct 7, 2019

Yet another thread gone astray.

dutchsteammachine · Oct 7, 2019

Images recovered from mid 70's Pioneer 10 NASA tapes. By yours truly. Converted from raw grayscale bitmap to PNG.

BSP · Oct 7, 2019

That does sound really cool, but what are we looking at?

Helios 1984 · Oct 7, 2019

BradS said:
Yet another thread gone astray.

Maybe Sean could split the thread? Microfilm is an interesting topic and photography related.

Leica Experience Days 2019: Analogue Photography

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