Leica Barnack: good user?

Dali · Feb 17, 2012

For 10 people saying they never had trouble loading a Leica SM without trimming the film leader, I guess I can find 20 stating the opposite. I guess that Leitz recommendation had a justification. After all, they are in a good position to know about it...

mhcfires · Feb 17, 2012

I usually don't trim the film leader when loading my IIIa or IIIf with boxed film, but for the stuff I have loaded into the Leica cassettes I do trim the leaders as recommended. I don't have an ABLON template, I just trim the leader and pop it in. I rarely have trouble.

davela · Feb 20, 2012

2F/2F said:
This is going to sound arrogant, but I'll say it anyhow, and hope no one takes it the wrong way. They are great everyday users for those who know what they are doing. A beginner, or even someone with a fairly good knowledge, but with SLRs only, would likely be lost with one of them initially. There would be a steep learning curve for sure. Of course it can be done, but it would be far more seamless if you had a lot of practical experience photographing before picking one up. Basically, what I am saying it that having enough practice behind you to be able to judge light levels without a meter, and to pre-set exposure as you walk from one lighting to the other is crucial IMO. And then, on top of that, you have to get fast with all the little gizmos on the cameras. If you aren't fast and on the ball all the time, you miss shots left and right with Barnack Leicas.

Once you learn to work with them, they are about the most easy to carry high-quality mechanical camera you will find, and they can pack a lot of optical punch for such an easy to carry camera. (Not necessarily in absolute sharpness, but in style. A lot of the Leitz thread mount lenses have very distinctive optical "signatures" that would probably label them as "bad" lenses in a blind objective test by today's standards.) To me, they are the ultimate convenient day-to-day shooter that provides both "excellent" and "interestingly flawed" lenses in an easily portable kit, while also having extremely good mechanical quality.

If you are going to be troubled by loading the film through the bottom, by tiny RF and VF windows, by relatively weak and tiny RF patches, by getting good exposures without an in-camera meter, and all the other anachronisms of using these cameras in the context of today's do-everything cameras, then there is no shame in saying forget the Barnack Leica; it just isn't for me. IMO, you need to use the camera that suits your shooting to get your best results.

I agree with you completely. I used to work in 16mm film (for television) using the likes of B&H Filmos and Arri 16's, rugged powerful cameras in any era (even today), but definitely not made for beginners or the consumer market. These required dealing with all sorts of quirky challenging, non-automated technical issues (finders, film loading, exposure, focus, emulsion selection, etc.), but mastering them could produce cinematic quality results. This prepared me in later life to deal with Barnacks and related vintage quality cameras (e.g. Nikon, Contax). I understood the concept of sacrificing convenience for total control to achieve maximum performance with a camera.

Dali · Feb 20, 2012

Total control for maximum performance is not synonym of inconvenience. There is a lot of cameras much easier to master. Are they less efficient? Certainly not or Leica would has stick with the Barnack concept until now. Even manufacturers which copied the Barnack concept switched to something else after a decade or two, not without reason.

SM Leica cameras are small, aesthetic, silent but no magic. They can be effective but I don't consider them as the most versatile. For that, SLR are way ahead.

TheTrailTog · Feb 20, 2012

Huh, guess I'll stop worrying about trimming leaders. I've never actually tried loading it without doing so as that was what I read about and what was also told to me by the person that gave me mine. With that in mind, it really is user friendly...lol

IloveTLRs · Feb 20, 2012

Dali said:
For 10 people saying they never had trouble loading a Leica SM without trimming the film leader, I guess I can find 20 stating the opposite. I guess that Leitz recommendation had a justification. After all, they are in a good position to know about it...

+100

I am one of those 20.

For me, I've found nothing better than Barnack Leicas (I'm not a big M fan.) I enjoy nothing more than to walk around with a 50mm lens on mine, and a few rolls of film. Almost every single one of my favorite photos has been taken with one.

I seem to be a rare breed - all of my friends and most dealers have commented that no one else they know of uses them exclusively.

vpwphoto · Feb 20, 2012

Poor OP! He decided on a "Barnack Leica" and he get's a bunch of people raining on his decision.
I'd go with the newest one you can get. I just held a near mint IIIg that was delightful with a clear finder.

msbarnes · Feb 20, 2012

I already dismissed the Leica Barnack idea.

I'm not coming from an auto-everything SLR, but a Kodak Retina IIIc. Both are similar in that they are manual exposure (well, the way I use it atleast) and have squinty viewfinders, so those are things that I'm used to. I just wanted a RF that is ready-to-shoot and has decent focusing abilities without compromising build. A good LTM body might fit this bill and it might even be easier to focus because of the higher magnification, but the nicer Leica LTM lenses seem a bit expensive and overpriced. I think that I'd rather save up and go M instead or just deal with the Retina cameras.

msbarnes · Feb 20, 2012

Re-reading this thread makes me want to go Leica Barnack!

I'm going to try to get my hands on some Leica Barnack cameras in the future to see how I like the handling. I feel that going M might be overkill for my needs because the high price that they command.

Jim Jones · Feb 20, 2012

The Retina IIIc was a decent performer, although Leica has an edge in performance and much more robust construction. The main advantages of the LTM were compactness and a good variety of older lenses. I used them for 15 years before switching to the M series. For anyone wanting a pocket size camera capable of quality photos, the Retina and LTM are still logical. The slightly better versatility of the M made it a logical choice for me. The durability of one M4 for 42 years is testimony to Leica's engineering and build quality

Jim Jones · Feb 20, 2012

Remember, any LTM camera may be overdue for a CLA. The battered 1939 Leica I bought long ago for its Nikkor lens quit working maybe 10 years ago. Probably cleaning and lubing would put it right. An early postwar IIIc has bad shutter curtains. The shutter in the Canon P bought new is sluggish, which may be due to years of storage. A Canon 7 bought second hand for its f/1.4 lens in 1968 seems to be working. Older cameras are always a gamble. However, a camera with the build quality of Leica after an expert CLA should be cost effective over its remaining years.

2F/2F · Feb 20, 2012

If you are used to a Retina, then going to a Barnack camera will be easy. I like my Retina IIa a lot, but it is not very ergonomic. If the door was hinged on the other side, it would be a huge improvement.

Leica Barnack: good user?

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