Legal Ramifications of reproducing Kodak Retina Parts?

Kino · Jun 28, 2017

Well, I went and did it. I stripped the cocking rack of my Kodak IIc rangefinder after taking out the shutter and cleaning it. I pre-loaded the cocking rack a bit too much and, zing, it stripped.

This got me to thinking, staring at this tiny bit of metal that will probably cost as much as the camera itself cost to purchase used, just how hard would it be to hire a small parts jobber to whip up 50 or so of these racks?

This lead to the question of if Kodak would be "interested" in someone producing reproduction replacement parts for a camera they haven't manufactured in decades.

It also led me to wonder if anyone bought the rights to reproduce these parts from Kodak and would get excited?

I know Micro Tools (Europe) sells these racks for 24,99 Euro; wonder what their arrangement is with Kodak, or if there is one?

Prof_Pixel · Jun 28, 2017

Just as there are 'after market' auto parts manufacturers, I suspect there would be no problem with making (and selling) 'after market' camera parts, as long as they weren't marked with the Kodak name or logo.

Kino · Jun 28, 2017

Thanks, Prof_Pixel. I thought pretty much the same. Seems if the price per unit could be low enough, it would be worth it.

But of course, I could sit on 49 racks for the next 10 years!

paul ron · Jun 28, 2017

offer your units to microtools usa if your production cost is low enough?

.

Kino · Jun 28, 2017

paul ron said:
offer your units to microtools usa if your production cost is low enough?

.

Might at least be a way to recoup the cost of manufacture... hmmm...

Theo Sulphate · Jun 28, 2017

While you're at it, a run of Retina IIa frame counter springs might be worthwhile. An aftermarket version of this silly blade of metal is being sold by them for 55,99€ (yes, not 56€, but 55,99€!).

http://micro-tools.shopgate.com/item/524353

Kino · Jun 28, 2017

Theo Sulphate said:
While you're at it, a run of Retina IIa frame counter springs might be worthwhile. An aftermarket version of this silly blade of metal is being sold by them for 55,99€ (yes, not 56€, but 55,99€!).

http://micro-tools.shopgate.com/item/524353

Crazy!

paul ron · Jun 29, 2017

this could be a calling?

aftermarket camera parts for obsolete cameras...
How about that stupid gear n pawl in the kowa that strips too?????

im sure we can make a nice inventory for your new business.

.

Kino · Jun 29, 2017

paul ron said:
this could be a calling?

aftermarket camera parts for obsolete cameras...
How about that stupid gear n pawl in the kowa that strips too?????

im sure we can make a nice inventory for your new business.

.

You kinda read my mind!

Of course, only the parts most in demand would be reasonable to attempt to make. I think the only danger is ANYONE can do it, so the market might bottom-out real quick if anyone else would jump in and start making the same parts you were attempting to market. It would have to be in very small batches, which would drive the price up. Don't know...

Theo Sulphate · Jun 29, 2017

From my communication with Chris at Retina Rescue, the frame counter spring is a common failure point and in very limited supply.

AgX · Jun 29, 2017

There would be no legal issue unless one would call those parts original Kodak parts.

indy_kid · Jun 29, 2017

paul ron said:
this could be a calling?

aftermarket camera parts for obsolete cameras...

IMHO, the easiest way to do that would be to buy obsolete cameras and part them out. You never know what parts are patented, and a Cease & Desist out of the blue can ruin your whole weekend.

I'm also into firearms, and [Numrich Gun Parts](http://www.gunpartscorp.com/) is pretty big into parting out old guns. Replacement stocks are a big item, as it would be quite expensive to have someone make a duplicate stock of a rare gun and have it fit properly without having the gun on hand to test fit. So, they'll advertise of parts from old, non-functional guns or will buy the entire gun and part it out. They do locate NOS on occasion, and have new parts made that are now public domain. They have the resources to do the investigating to determine what parts are public domain and which are not.

AgX · Jun 29, 2017

indy_kid said:
You never know what parts are patented.

If there was a patent on that part it would have run out before your parents were born...

darkroommike · Jun 29, 2017

Theo Sulphate said:
While you're at it, a run of Retina IIa frame counter springs might be worthwhile. An aftermarket version of this silly blade of metal is being sold by them for 55,99€ (yes, not 56€, but 55,99€!).

http://micro-tools.shopgate.com/item/524353

Well then, as long as it's not 56€!

darkroommike · Jun 29, 2017

Making parts for your won repairs or making replacement parts that are not marketed as Kodak original is no problem.

paul ron · Jun 30, 2017

AgX said:
If there was a patent on that part it would have run out before your parents were born...

exactly!

i doubt there would be any copyright on 90 year old parts of obsolete cameras.
start tooling up.

.

zanxion72 · Jun 30, 2017

Note that Alaris did not buy all patents for the Retina cameras. Actually, at least in the US there are no patents registered for these.
(search here: Dead Link Removed)

Wallendo · Jun 30, 2017

Most patents are only valid for 20 years. As long as you don't violate any Kodak trademarks you would be safe.

mr rusty · Jun 30, 2017

I know Micro Tools (Europe) sells these racks for 24,99 Euro

they do. I bought one and don't think the metal is as hard as it should be. did work though

Sirius Glass · Jun 30, 2017

paul ron said:
exactly!

i doubt there would be any copyright on 90 year old parts of obsolete cameras.
start tooling up.

If one starts making new parts of an old Kodak camera could force George Eastman to rise from the grave. Do you have zombie insurance?

benjiboy · Jul 1, 2017

AgX said:
There would be no legal issue unless one would call those parts original Kodak parts.

I make it a practice of never giving or taking legal advice online.

BrianVS · Sep 13, 2017

I bought a box of Kodak Retina parts off Ebay some 15 years ago, have collected parts cameras for a long time. Been sent 5 and asked to repair and return 2, that sort of thing. Bought a Shutter Cocking Rack from MicroTools just to find an unused original in the box, so still have a spare. The replacement part is very close to the original. Remember- using a much stronger metal may result in damage at a different place in the gear train. One that is more difficult to get to. Probably have a few 1a's and IIa's, have sent parts out before. We need a "Parts Exchange Thread" here for DIY'rs. Use to be one on the old camera repair forums. Getting the advance lever for a IIa or Ia back in place- hold down the "CLAW" with dental floss to get into place. Figured that trick out almost 20 years ago.

CMoore · Sep 14, 2017

When - How - Why.......what is the process or string of events that need to happen for something to be deemed..."In The Public Domain" .?
Thank You

Theo Sulphate · Sep 14, 2017

CMoore said:
When - How - Why.......what is the process or string of events that need to happen for something to be deemed..."In The Public Domain" .?
Thank You

Patents expire and after that, a part, mechanism, or whatever can be duplicated. However, they can't be claimed as being original manufacturer parts.

summicron1 · Sep 15, 2017

CMoore said:
When - How - Why.......what is the process or string of events that need to happen for something to be deemed..."In The Public Domain" .?
Thank You

making a replacement part would not, i am thinking, be of concern for public domain -- you are replacing piece of metal, not producing a product and representing it as being a Kodak product. Same thing as buying an after-market belt for your car when it is a 2-year-old ford, for example.

Legal Ramifications of reproducing Kodak Retina Parts?

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency