Legacy Pro Bulk Film - Fitting it into a bulk loader -Help!

pentaxuser · Sep 16, 2010

Being a lover of Neopan 400 and being told that Legacy Pro 400 was the same film, I bought a 100ft bulk roll a few months ago from the newly opened Legacy shop in the U.K.

I opened it in the dark tonight to load into my Telesar bulk loader only to discover that unlike Ilford bulk film which is "loose" and rolled onto a central core, the Legacy is loaded onto what feels like an open wheel with aluminium rims either side. This takes up extra height inside the Telesar loader and prevents the top flat cover from sitting properly so while the round screw cover would probably screw onto the central screw there is a strong potential for light leaks and strain on the cover.

I eventually gave up and tried the same roll into a Watson loader. It won't fit that either as the rims come so close to the edge that the Watson's top drum which fits inside the loading compartment doesn't have the room to drop into the space.

So I have two loaders neither of which seems to accept the Legacy bulk roll and yet it seem incredible that Legacy has designed a bulk roll that doesn't fit either loader.

Many here especially the U.S members must use Legacy bulk film and presumably have one or the others of these two loaders.

I am completely puzzled as to what I can do. Anybody out there who has either of these two loaders especially the Telesar which I prefer and has loaded Legacy bulk film into either who can help?

Thanks

mrred · Sep 16, 2010

I use the lloyd's and it works fine.

pentaxuser · Sep 16, 2010

mrred said:
I use the lloyd's and it works fine.

Thanks for the reply I am not sure if the Lloyds and Telesar are alike. It's as if the metal spool takes up enough extra height in the bulk film compartment to prevent the flat top from fitting properly and yet if that was the issue and some bulk loaders are not designed to accept metal spools such as both the Watson and Telesar whic is like the AP Bobinquick then you'd think that there would be comments to that effect here on APUG.

I am still puzzled

pentaxuser

fschifano · Sep 16, 2010

The Lloyd loader is not at all like the Telesar loader. It is the simplest possible loader available. With only two moving parts, and that's if you count the hinge of the door as a moving part, it is the most trouble free loader I've ever used. I've never used a 100 ft. roll of Legacy Pro film so I can't say for sure if it will fit the Lloyd loader, but I do like the loader. I have at least 1/2 dozen loaders and the Lloyds are my favorites.

mrred · Sep 16, 2010

I have an AP here and like and use it a lot. I use it for stock that I need to keep track of, like the spool of Portra 160 NC that's in it - when to reorder. I use my Neopan for general 400 stock and always have a few spools around.

frobozz · Sep 16, 2010

The Lloyd's loader has the same problem with Fuji bulk film - those are "daylight" movie camera spools. On the Lloyd's I made it work by not really tightening the lid on all the way, and using some tape to keep it from walking off. Still a pain to get the reel out again when it's empty though, since it's such a tight fit on the sides. I think someone else mentioned buzzing off the ribs inside the lid with a dremel or file, and getting the extra room that way (and possibly making the lid a tiny bit more fragile.)

Duncan

Worker 11811 · Sep 16, 2010

Yup... It's just a little ole' film spool.

93mm (3.6") outer diameter. 29mm (1.125") inner diameter. 36mm (1.4") wide.
They fit in my Watson just fine. No modifications necessary.

ath · Sep 17, 2010

I use the Legacy in my Watson style loader (Computrol ?). While the spool is slightly too thick it is OK if I loosen the central screw a little bit. When done loading I tighten the screw again and store the loader in a black photo paper bag. No light leaks observes so far.

2F/2F · Sep 17, 2010

I would roll it onto one of your old Ilford spools.

mrred · Sep 17, 2010

frobozz said:
The Lloyd's loader has the same problem with Fuji bulk film - those are "daylight" movie camera spools. On the Lloyd's I made it work by not really tightening the lid on all the way, and using some tape to keep it from walking off.

I don't know what to tell you. I am on my third spool and I have no problems what so ever. Yes the spool it self is a bit odd, but I have no issues with putting it in. Mine fits fine.

I bought my film about a year ago (6 cans then, I have 3 left). Maybe they changed the spool since then?

pentaxuser · Sep 17, 2010

Thanks all so far. Summarising I think we have: There may or may not be issues with both the Lloyd's and Watson. This might be due to slight changes in the spools' size or maybe the tolerances are so tight that the loaders build dimensions give enough leeway in some case to accept the spools and not in others.

As someone has mentioned there are ribs under the flat cover of the Telesar which if reduced in size might accomodate the spool but at the risk of weakening or ruining the cover and maybe rendering it less than satisfactory for reversion to say Ilford film which has no spools.

The other possibility is to tighten the flat cover as far down as it will go then use light tight black tape around the edges and hope it holds and is thick enough. It introduces some risk though.

Final solution is to respool a 100 feet in the dark onto an Ilford core. I don't have a core and I am dubious of my ability to do this satisfactorily.

It seems to me that if there are problems with Legacy metal spools and clearly from your replies there are and I am not alone then the maker/ distributor should either be warning buyers on its site or taking steps to have it spooled onto a core which is known to be successful for all loaders.
It is Digital Truth here in the U.K. which sells the bulk film. It is a real pity as I like Fuji 400 and the advantages of bulk loading but I don't think I could be bothered with another spool if a makeshift solution is all there is.

As yet no-one with a Telesar seems to have tried loading Llegacy bulk which is a pity but maybe such a person will emerge

pentaxuser

mablo · Sep 17, 2010

I've had the same problem with LegacyPro bulk film. I tried to carve off those ribs from my loader (Dayroll) but had no suitable tools for the job. After reading this thread I bought a Lloyd loader from you-know-where. Hope it works.

pentaxuser · Sep 17, 2010

mablo's experience is yet more evidence that there seems to be enough problems for it not to be just an odd chance occurrence. As I said above, at the very least a warning should be issued on the seller's sites that the metal spools can create problems. Of course the sellers might be ignorant of any issues unless they are told about it and to that extent I have e-mailed sales at DigitalTruth about it. There should be a solution. Maybe a small change to the spools or reversion to spooling onto the Ilford core system.

If there is no solution then a big warning is required to potential customers and a committment to accept the rolls back if the customers loaders cannot accept the film. Re-spooling at home or seeking out a Lloyds which may or may not accept the spools or other loader which can accept them is a step we shouldn't have to take

pentaxuser

ath · Sep 17, 2010

In case you respool be aware that the frame numbers will run in the opposite direction. Personally I find this extremely distracting; Rollei Retro 80s and ATP came in the "wrong" direction and it bothered me so much I had to respool them.

pentaxuser · Sep 17, 2010

Well here's an update which you all deserve as you have taken the time and effort to respond.
I have had a reply from a guy called Joe Mided at Digital Truth within a couple of hours so it deserves praise for a quick reply. I am assuming that he is the U.K. based rep but he could easily be U.S. based, I suppose. Anyway he is saying that this is the first he has heard of any loading issues with the Legacy spools but will talk to the manufacturer and get back to me next week. So far so good.

However it reinforces the need to alert suppliers of issues. In my e-mail I briefly mentioned that on APUG I was not alone in having problems. As we are a fairly self sufficient bunch maybe we manage round things too often. We can't expect the manufacturer to address our problems if we don't alert him.

pentaxuser

mablo · Sep 17, 2010

Pentaxuser, thank you very much for your effort.

pentaxuser · Sep 26, 2010

An update: After a long time in the darkroom in total darkness, I was able to fit the Legacy spool into the Watson but it is very fiddly and not the ideal loader for Legacy spools. However it may be that the Telesar is one of the few that cannot accept the spool unless it has its internal ribs ground down. From several sources a couple of millimetres ground off from the ribs on the top disc and bottom section should be enough to allow the spool to fit inside and revolve freely.

So in conclusion be aware that the Telesar as good as it is as a loader and I find it very good, will not accept Legacy spools. Sellers on e-bay may not know this so are unlikely to warn you but if you are in the market for a loader and want to use Legacy bulk film spools then the Telesar unless modified will not work.

pentaxuser

altair · Jan 2, 2011

I've run into the same problem today. Tried bulk loading a 100ft roll of Legacy Pro 400 using a Computrol loader (Watson clone). The bulk film won't fit inside the loader's film chamber.

In the end, I took it out and put it back inside the metal can it came in. Lucky to not ruin the film.

Might have to look for another loader now..

ath · Jan 2, 2011

The computrol works for me, see my first post in this thread.

altair · Jan 2, 2011

ath, how do you loosen the central screw? I couldn't seem to get it to budge...

mgb74 · Jan 2, 2011

With spools apparently fitting in some examples but not others of the same loader, is there any possibility that more than one type of spool is used for the film?

altair · Jan 2, 2011

mgb74: That has crossed my mind, as the spool on my bulk film roll is not at all round as per an earlier attached image in this thread. From what I feel from my fingers, the spool is almost like a hexagon...it definitely feels like it has sides, anyway.

pentaxuser · Jan 2, 2011

Just one more update if I may. I had a friend who has access to the right kind if precision milling machine to grind down the ribs on the Telesar loader so they lie flat. Eureka! The Legacy Pro bulk roll fits fine now. It was a difference of 2mm only and it doesn't weaken the loader's top.

The AP and Jessops loader( might be an AP under contract to Jessops) have that extra 2mm built into their roll box compartment so were far-sighted enough to try and accommodate bulk rolls with metal wheels.

All we need now is a fresh release of Fuji film to Digital Truth to enable the re-appearance of Legacy Pro to make all my efforts and your trouble in helping me worthwhile.

As far as I can ascertain all other makes of bulk roll film do not use the metal wheels so no more Legacy film means no more problems and you are free to use any loader you like without worries.

pentaxuser

ath · Jan 2, 2011

altair said:
mgb74: That has crossed my mind, as the spool on my bulk film roll is not at all round as per an earlier attached image in this thread. From what I feel from my fingers, the spool is almost like a hexagon...it definitely feels like it has sides, anyway.

Then it's different than mine. With central screw I meant the big red knob securing the chamber for the donator roll.

altair · Jan 4, 2011

pentaxuser: Thanks for the update. That's good to know, but it leaves those of us without access to a precision dremel or milling machines without a solution. I don't think I can grind down the ribs with hand tools without damaging the loader in some way So, it's either find a solution that works or buy another 100ft roll of film that's not LegacyPro. And by God, I'm going to load and shoot this roll of LegacyPro no matter what.

ath: I see. Might work, my only concern then would be light leaks. My problem is that I can't even secure the lid of the donator roll's chamber tightly.And it's such close quarters inside the chamber that my fingers can't even maneuver the 3inch leader to the loading slot

Will try again soon.

Legacy Pro Bulk Film - Fitting it into a bulk loader -Help!

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