Learning, slowly, about lighting

OP
OP

drmoss_ca

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
462
Format
Multi Format
If you mean antivirals I'm completely with you! I have to take a low dose daily for a year after a bone marrow transplant, and as soon as I was sure it was shingles pain (I've had it twice before) I tripled the dose to the full treatment dosage and will keep that up for ten days. When I had shingles before I recovered reasonably quickly, but then I had some remnant of immunity from having had chickenpox as a child. This time I have a brand new immune system, like a newborn, so I'm completely dependent on the antiviral to stop this generalising into adult chickenpox (which is a disaster). I have started having all the immunizations of infancy already, but I'm not allowed a live/attenuated virus vaccine for two years in case even the attenuated virus overwhelms me. Sadly, that means no chickenpox/shingles/measles/mumps/rubella vaccines for two years.
 

Steve2997

Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2021
Messages
3
Location
Minneapolis, Minnesota
Format
35mm
Another possibility, or rabbit hole to go down, is continuous lighting (aka Hot Lights) with fresnel lenses. The famous Harcourt studio in Paris usually has some behind the scenes photos that show how they are using a mix of Mole-Richardson and Arri fresnels along with some Dedolights, to get the "old Hollywood" look that they specialize in.

https://www.studio-harcourt.com
 
OP
OP

drmoss_ca

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
462
Format
Multi Format

That looks fascinating! When I was doing paper negatives (ISO 3) I used up to three CFT lamps and a strobe on top sometimes. Never seen a real incandescent photographic light in use.
 

Steve2997

Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2021
Messages
3
Location
Minneapolis, Minnesota
Format
35mm
Yes, you likely wouldn't see them except on motion picture or television sets. Now most replaced for studio work by cooler lights, but still found on lighting trucks for movies. Like so much analog gear, these were cheaper five years ago but still often available for USD 50-100.
 

M Carter

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Messages
2,147
Location
Dallas, TX
Format
Medium Format
Just noticed this thread, some thoughts -

Continuous lights are nice, but tungsten is the cheaper way to go - but they're hot and can be an issue with diffusion materials. Youc an find used theatrical fresnels all over the place, but in my experience, you need 500 watts or so to have a lot of flexibility. Harbor Freight "Router speed controls" make good dimmers for them (with B&W film, as the clor warms as you dim 'em) - those controlas can take up to 1K, household dimmers will be more limited.

LEDs are awesome but pricey for useful output (I use them all week for commercial video). I can stuff an Aputure Lightstorm panel ($600-$700) in a softbox and get about F4 at ISO 400. I have a Falcon Eyes 100 watt flexible panel ($270 or so), but it's about half the output of the lightstorm.

I'm 100% strobes for stills, and if the setup is at all complex, I use a DSLR (well, mirrorless) to proof the shots - just like polaroid back in the day. Even shooting 8x10, use a similar focal length and everything matches up. I have a B&W camera profile that's very close to film. Beyond lighting quality, it can point out things like grip gear in the shot or odd reflections you'll miss.

With softboxes, I'd say 90% of the time I want a fabric grid on the thing. I have 30" x 8" strip boxes, various rectangles, even a 6' strip. But I really like using 11" grid heads for portraits as sort of a "face fill".

Hard light is great for showing shape and form, I love it on cheekbones from behind.

This is a grid reflector on the face and some various soft lights - no diffusion, just letting some flare creep in, on E6:


Hard light from behind, and a mesh scrim to tone down his hands:


Two light setup, 11" grid with mylar behind the grid, and a tungsten light on the BG, 1/2 second exposure - after the flash popped I cranked the focus to hell for the BG:


Hard + soft, just playing with angles, flares added in post:



No real rules to this stuff, just have fun - having a willing model is half the battle!!!
 

christophern

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2021
Messages
31
Location
France
Format
Large Format
Hello Dr. Moss . . .

Sorry it took me over a year to come across your post. I hope that your health is better. By now you may have already finished your project, I don't know. I thought I'd contribute, anyway, for anyone researching the subject later.

First of all, thanks so much for your kind words about the book that my late writing partner, Roger Hicks, and I wrote on Hollywood Portrait lighting; he would have been pleased, and I'm glad you found it useful!

I totally agree that digital works well as the new "Polaroid", to help us better visualize results before making actual exposures. (Speaking of the word, "visualize", it reminds me that Ansel Adams actually did this, using Polaroid materials!)

At the risk of sounding obvious, I would say that your efforts to achieve the so-called 'Hollywood' look would be greatly helped simply by using the same type of lighting and techniques which were used to make those great portraits in the first place: tungsten floods and tungsten fresnel-lensed spotlights. As has already been said here, one of the biggest advantages of this sort of lighting is that you can actually see the effect, immediately. In fact —once you've standardized your parameters — you may not even need a "digital Polaroid" in order to visualize your portrait; I find that I can actually see the final image 'pop up' before my eyes when the right lighting is finally adjusted. A few technical points: be careful to adjust the power output, distances, heights and lateral directions of your lighting fixtures, as mentioned in our book.

Lastly, I don't believe the full look can normally be achieved without detailed retouching (though it's sometimes possible).

Attached is a portrait I made of a friend — a "digital Polaroid" of my own— that I put here to illustrate a few of my points.

Best,

Christopher Nisperos
 

Attachments

  • fullsizeoutput_13e2.jpeg
    915 KB · Views: 91

wiltw

Subscriber
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
6,445
Location
SF Bay area
Format
Multi Format
I am long a proponent of the use of a SINGLE CONSTANT light source to learn lighting principles, as applied to portrait photography.
As a student of lighting, it is important to instantly see what changes in lighting angle do (both L/R and up/down position)...
  • see where shadows are cast on the face
  • see how shadow position can flatter or make hideous a visage
  • learn how broad lighting vs. short lighting can flatter different types of faces
After you learn to position a single source to be able flatter any type of face, then you can use a second source/reflector to reduce shadow contrast.
All the above will make lighting more intuitive than simply mimicing 'formula' lighting. It decreases setup time, when you get portrait clients who you might have a hard time with, when the attention span is short or their time is short.

THEN you can learn what things like softboxes or umbrellas do, to soften shadow edges (penumbra).

And finally, then you can learn to employ a third or fourth or more light source for other purposes.

Strobes are great because they increase exposure, allowing higher shutter speeds and smaller apertures for greater DOF. But they prevent you from SEEING immediately, to LEARN from what you see... unless you have strobes with modelling lights.
 
Last edited:

gone

Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2009
Messages
5,504
Location
gone
Format
Medium Format
If I have to use artificial lighting, or even if it's outdoors, I find a phone nearly always will show me reflections that I missed by just looking at the model. Outside, I usually can see that, but not always. So a phone can be used for the same purpose as a Polaroid.

There are few things more annoying than taking what you thought was the perfect portrait, only to realize later that a stray reflection or uneven lighting ruined the shot.
 

RalphLambrecht

Subscriber
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Messages
14,649
Location
K,Germany
Format
Medium Format

It's easier said than done but true. The only way to learn lighting, is shooting, shooting, andmore shooting
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…