Learner Camera

holdingon · Apr 9, 2007

I am just starting to get in to photography and am looking for a camera that will help me learn photography basics. I do not want a digital camear that I just press a button on, I am looking to work to make pictures good and know why they come out how they do. I have been leaning toward an OM2 because of all the praise they get everywhere and their size. I will be taking mainly action shots and random pictures of places I visit. I am wondering if this camera is a good choice and will fit my need for a small coustomizible camera. If any one has any comments or suggestions it would be great. Thanks

DBP · Apr 9, 2007

Well, you can probably get more recommendations than there are members of APUG. It would help to know what budget you have in mind and what part of the planet you are in, as prices and availability do vary.

bdial · Apr 9, 2007

Choose a camera that fits your hands well, in that you can manipulate the controls easily, and one that is easy for YOU to understand. That's not easily done by looking at web pages, ebay listings and reviews. You may need to try out several different models. If you have any camera shows within a reasonable drive, that would be a good place to see and try out the various contenders plus get a good price on whatever you pick out.
The OM2's are good, and plentiful, as are Canons and Nikons, not to mention all the others.
For 35 mm I'm partial to Nikon, but that is largly because they are what I know, and I have an investment in Nikon lenses.
Whatever you do, please don't spend time at a dealer looking at numerous cameras then go off and pluck one off ebay.

Paul Sorensen · Apr 9, 2007

I really like the OM2 as well. Also, I am a big fan of the Nikon FE and FE2 as well. The OM2 will be smaller and lighter, but the Nikon will be more available and have more lenses available. Also, the Nikon lenses will work on auto focus bodies if you decide to go that route in the future. I am sure that folks will disagree with me, but I am not a fan of the Canon AE1 for beginners. I think that the AE1 makes it too hard to use manual exposure, which is what I always recommended to my students as the place to start. There are also good cameras from tons of other manufacturers, but I don't know the others as well as the Nikon and Olympus.

Since you are interested in action, I think having the auto exposure is a good idea, (as the above cameras have) but you need to be able to use manual exposure as well, so make sure that whatever you get has the ability to work in manual mode, and that it is easy to use manually as well.

The most important thing is to get started. Just find a good camera, there are tons out there, and get shooting. Don't worry about finding the perfect camera to start, almost everything you do is more important than what the camera does.

copake_ham · Apr 9, 2007

Purchase the OM2 and love it to death!

You may come to want different film cameras and venture beyond 35mm to other formats - but you have to start somewhere.

And the somewhere you propose to start at is quite a fine one. Get the camera and have some fun "burning" film. Springtime is coming and there are lots of photos to be made!

Eric Rose · Apr 10, 2007

whatever you get, make sure it's fully manual. None of that P for "P"rofessional stuff.

film_guy · Apr 10, 2007

Or you can get a newer Canon or Nikon SLR which can shoot fully manual exposure and also have all those gimicks like "P" or "Av" or "Tv" modes, and make it easier on your children or spouse to take up photography.

Roger Hicks · Apr 10, 2007

holdingon said:
If any one has any comments or suggestions it would be great. Thanks

Old Nikkormats are silly-cheap, enormously strong, and take a far wider range of lenses than OMs. But there are endless choices.

If you go to www.rogerandfrances.com, you'll find a number of free modules that may be of interest: Welcome to Film, Saving Money, How Many Cameras Do You Need, Glossary and more.

Cheers,

R.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Apr 10, 2007

In my opinion, it does not matter that much which is your first camera: if you have a leaning towards the OM2 (and it's a damn fine one from what I've read), then go for it.

It matters more which will be your SECOND camera, because that's when you'll know what you really want after trying out the first one.

Might turn out that you don't need a second one, and then it's just like re-celebrating your wedding in Las Vegas.

Paul Howell · Apr 10, 2007

[. I will be taking mainly action shots and random pictures of places I visit. I am wondering if this camera is a good choice and will fit my need for a small coustomizible camera.

You want a camera that has a motorized advance or the option for a winder or drive. The O&M and O&M 2 had at least an optional winder, maybe a drive as well. An N 90 or 80 have a very good built in drive. Nikkormats had one or two models with optional winders but may be diffcult to find in working order. The FA, FE, E and FG all have optional winders and even a drive. The Cannon AE1 has a very good winder. The T90 has an intergrated drive.

MartinB · Apr 10, 2007

I second BDial's post about ergonomics - it is better to work with controls that feel natural to you than fight with ones that are counter-intuitive. Each person is different so it is worth while to go to a store or swap meet to try a few out in your hands. Since you are interested in action, I would first check out how easy it is to focus. Some viewfinders seem great while others are a struggle. Next is setting aperture and shutter speed, followed by exposure compensation (giving slightly more or less exposure) As long as these basic controls feel "right" to you, any other features are nice but not central to your choice. Weight and size are individual but you will soon know after picking it up whether you will carry it with you (frequently) or leave it behind because it is like carrying around a brick.
All the cameras mentioned in the other replies can be good choices - most of the major camera makers made good models (most also made some ergonomic duds!)

copake_ham · Apr 10, 2007

Roger Hicks said:
Old Nikkormats are silly-cheap, enormously strong, and take a far wider range of lenses than OMs.....

R.

It is a rare day when I find myself in agreement with Roger - but today is one of them!

My first "serious" camera was a Nikon Nikkormat FT-2 which I purchased new some thirty years ago. Until only a few years ago it was my only "serious" camera too. It still works fine after being used all over the world: N.A., Eur., Oz etc. It traveled all over Vermont and the Canadian Maritimes several time while being carried inside a bicycle pannier.

The Nikkormats are very good cameras that were made to last and last and last.

It saddens me to see how dirt cheap they are selling these days on eBay etc. - espescially when I think about how much I paid for it three decades ago.

Steve Bellayr · Apr 10, 2007

To confuse you more: You need to decide what you want to take pictures of. If you want to take pictures of landscapes and blow them up I would recommend a larger format camera. If on the other hand if you want to take street photography photographs and casual photos of your friends then a Nikkormat is an excellent choice. I, too, started with that camera. I still have it and it takes excellent pictures. Construction is rugged and it will take a lot of abuse. Lens are plentiful. A nice combination with the camera to start is a 35mm f2. You will have wide depth of field and be able to shoot on the fly. The lens will be fast. Bargain wise the lens can be picked up for under $100. Later on for portraits you can add an 85mm. The Nikkormats take non-Ai lenses. Returning to the camera body make certain that the meter is accurate. On the OM series the advance tends to lock up and the camera is not worth repairing. If you are just starting out and unless you have lots of friends with endless patience and knowledge it might me best to look around for a reputable camera dealer who might carry an older camera to whom you can go back and ask questions. I personally would not be comfortable buying my first serious camera off ebay when they are plentiful and inexpensive. If you decide to go with Nikon I would also consider the F3h with the same lenses. It is a newer camera and you could add motor drive to it for less than $100. The lenses are AIs and are a little more expensive but we are talking 20 years newer. They are also plentiful just a little more expensive and just as rugged. You will also need a cap, shade, and filter, and strap. With these cameras you do not need a never ready case.

holdingon · Apr 10, 2007

Wow. I wasn't expecting all these replys. I have a lot more to think about now I am going to look at some Nikkormat's and hopefully be able to find a camera shop around so I can hold some cameras. I am really looking for something light and small that I can carry easily. My price range is about 100-250 since I don't know if this infacuation will turn in to a true passion or not. Thanks again for all the help

bdial · Apr 10, 2007

Since you are in New England, the photographica show this weekend in Wakefield is definitely the place to go. See the web site for details, http://www.phsne.org/
There will be a few folks from here attending, see Whitey's post in the N.E. threads. If any of the past shows are an indication, the number of 35 mm SLRs, not to mention everything else, will boggle your mind.
Nikkormats are great cameras, there are about 40 years worth of lenses that fit them (and many of the other Nikons), but small and light aren't exactly the words I'd use to describe them, at least not in comparison to some of the more recent cameras. That's also why so many are still around and functioning though.
But if you're able to make the show, there will be plenty of candidates to try out.

MattKing · Apr 11, 2007

First, you should understand that I've used Olympus OM SLRs for 30+ years, and still do today.

I have 6 bodies, and a lot of lenses.

Clearly, I may not be totally "objective" about these issues .

It is the size, and ergonomics, and quality of the system that appeals to me.

Nikon, or Pentax, or Minolta, or Canon, or ... will have similar quality, and may have more or less current availability.

There was an earlier comment about repairability - each line will have strengths and weaknesses on these issues. Many 20 - 30 year old cameras have some such issues. I know that I can usually get my Olympus cameras serviced now, but they are older, and I expect some issues.

If you want to know about availability, look at KEH and eBay. You'll find lots of Canon and Nikon and Pentax (and Olympus) but might have more difficulty with something like Beseler-Topcon.

If it were my decision, I'd go back to issues of ergonomics.

Matt

mcgrattan · Apr 11, 2007

There's just so much to choose from.

I have a Pentax P50 (aka P5), for example, which I think is a wonderful beginners camera. It has depth of field preview, manual, aperture priority and 2 different program modes, a nice bright view finder and takes K-mount lenses (of which there are many) and screwmount lenses with an adapter. Finally, it's pretty small -- it has almost exactly the same dimensions as an Olymposu OM-2.

http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/bodies/P/P5.html

I paid about 20 pounds for it, and another 25 pounds or so for a good 50mm (Pentax-A 50mm f1.7) lens in mint condition. Well under your 100 dollar budget.

As others have said, there are similar offerings from Nikon, Pentax, Canon and others ...

Soeren · Apr 11, 2007

My sisters first camera was a Minolta Autocord 6X6 TLR she got fifteen years ago. She still uses it together with a Nikormat FTsomething and a Nikon P&S.
6X6 is her format of choice for land- and cityscapes architecture portraits.... ah well... all her serious photography. My first "learner" was an OM 10. I can't recommend that though since its to automated. I think I second Rogers advise on Nikormats.
You may want to take a look on Rogers (and Frances)website since there is plenty of good advise in articles like "saving money" and "how many cameras do you need" etc. Only you can decide whats right for you, all we can do is bringing different aproaches and thoughts up. Whats right for me isn't neccesary right for you.
Kind regards
Søren

aldevo · Apr 15, 2007

holdingon said:
I am just starting to get in to photography and am looking for a camera that will help me learn photography basics. I do not want a digital camear that I just press a button on, I am looking to work to make pictures good and know why they come out how they do. I have been leaning toward an OM2 because of all the praise they get everywhere and their size. I will be taking mainly action shots and random pictures of places I visit. I am wondering if this camera is a good choice and will fit my need for a small coustomizible camera. If any one has any comments or suggestions it would be great. Thanks

Welcome to film...please stay a while!

The OM2 is a fine camera. However, I did note in your post that you will be taking lots of action shots. While this is certainly possible with a MF camera, it takes a bit more practice. If that makes the learning curve too steep, I would recommend that you consider starting with an Auto-Focus (AF) camera and then try Manual Focus if you are interested in doing so. I did this myself. I learned photography using a Canon EOS-5 AF camera but have switched to manual focus Fujica and Pentax cameras.

I'm not sure what current prices are in the UK, but a used Canon EOS 620 or 10S camera from a reputable broker (i.e. one who inspects and cleans the camera!) runs only about 65-120 USD in the US.

If you do decide to go the Auto-Focus route, make certain that the camera allows you to conveniently select full manual exposure. Some of the least expensive models do not have that feature.

One final note about the Olympus OM2 - many of these cameras are not equipped with a hot shoe for mounting and triggering flash units (strobes in the UK?). Accessory shoes, however, can be purchased.

Here's a link for more information on the various Olympus OM cameras:

http://brashear.phys.appstate.edu/lhawkins/photo/olympus.faq.html

Here's another describing the difference between the OM bodies:

http://camerapedia.org/wiki/Olympus_OM-1/2/3/4

Good luck with your decision and please let us know what you decide.

holdingon · Apr 16, 2007

I went to the camera show suggested on sunday and held and looked at some cameras, I ended up siding with the OM 2n it I liked how small and light it was, and everything functioned well on the camera. I have taken some pictures but havent developed anything yet. The only thing im having trouble with right now is the exposure meter on the side of the view finder, it is sort of blurry and hard to read, if any one has some suggestions or tips on getting started it would be great. Thanks again for all the information.

aldevo · Apr 16, 2007

holdingon said:
I went to the camera show suggested on sunday and held and looked at some cameras, I ended up siding with the OM 2n it I liked how small and light it was, and everything functioned well on the camera. I have taken some pictures but havent developed anything yet. The only thing im having trouble with right now is the exposure meter on the side of the view finder, it is sort of blurry and hard to read, if any one has some suggestions or tips on getting started it would be great. Thanks again for all the information.

For the viewfinder issue, you might want to post on:

http://www.kyphoto.com/cgi-bin/forum/discus.cgi

There's also the official Olympus Zuiko Mailing List:

Dead Link Removed

I know quite a few people who still shoot these cameras and they are certainly a passionate bunch. The title is appropriate

It may well be that the finder may just need a cleaning. This is one of the few sorts of repairs that many camera shops will still perform. I'd check on the aforementioned repair forum, however, for suggestions.

Congratulations on your purchase!

Can I ask which lens you purchased for the camera?

MattKing · Apr 16, 2007

Do you wear contacts or glasses?

Like many other cameras, the OM2 permits you to add diopter correcting lenses to the viewfinder, if your vision requires correction, and you prefer to use the diopters rather than wear your glasses or contacts while photographing.

Is there an eyecup attached to the camera, and if so, is there any chance that the previous owner installed a diopter correcting lens into the eyecup? If they did, and the vision correction they required doesn't match your eyes, it will be difficult for you to focus properly or to clearly see the exposure meter scale on the side of the viewing area.

Matt

holdingon · Apr 17, 2007

The camera came with a 50mm lens and a UV filter. I can see the needle on the meter but I can't make out any of the numbers it looks like it may be a little dusty so I will try a shop to get it cleaned, I am planing on getting the foam replaced any way. Im thinking about getting a wide angle lens to shoot skateboarding and a flash since my camera had it's hot shoe still attached.

MattKing · Apr 17, 2007

The viewing screen on the OM2 can be removed and cleaned by the user, but it's finicky.

Here is another useful link:

http://zuserver2.star.ucl.ac.uk/~rwesson/esif/om-sif.htm

And from that link, a link to the user manual:

http://zuserver2.star.ucl.ac.uk/~rwesson/esif/om-sif/bodygroup/manuals/om2n.pdf

Hope this helps.

Have fun!

Matt

sausage100uk · Apr 18, 2007

Practika cameras are cheap as chips, MTL5 is a reasonable example, fully manual, decent lenses (some made by Zeiss) look on ebay for a bargain...

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