Lazy split D76

Relayer · Feb 16, 2011

Hello

Ilford HP5+ in D76 stock produce fine grain negatives, but contrast and sharpness isn't good. I make experiment with simple two-batch developer: 1st batch is D76 stock, 2nd - Trisodium phosphate + Sodium sulfite. My goal was more sharpness and less contrast. Result is very nice for me. Follow is the:
left - batch A (D76 stock) 6min + batch B 3 min
right - D76 stock 7.5min
in both cases contrast is untouched.

100% crop

Keith Tapscott. · Feb 16, 2011

The stock D-76 seems to have finer grain and better resolution than the two-bath image. If you dilute your D-76 using one part stock with one part water, you will get better control of contrast and better sharpness with only a negligible difference in grain.
Forget about the two-bath.

Relayer · Feb 17, 2011

stock of D76 have unacceptable contrast and lost shadow details. I was make comparison of D76 1:1 and lazy-split D76. contrast, sharpness and grain is the near same (both variants have more grain than D76 stock). but 6+3min in lazy-split D76 give me push+1 (by density) compared to 13min in D76 1:1 to nominal EI. my guess that if I increase dev time in D76 1:1 for obtaining push+1 I will have more grain.

Rick A · Feb 17, 2011

You need to try Pyrocat-HD. Great shadow detail, and the masking properties of the stain hide the grain, high acutance. Sandy King has a web site dedicated to Pyrocat.

Relayer · Feb 17, 2011

Rick, I don't think that Pyrocat-HD is good choice for 135 HP5 because grain

Rick A · Feb 17, 2011

I use it all the time, as I stated, no grain due to masking of the stain. Pyrocat-HD is my go to developer for 35mm to minimize grain and maintain box speed.

Check out: www.pyrocathd.com or Unblinking Eye for info and examples of Pcat-HD

Relayer · Feb 17, 2011

can you share samples from HP5 35mm in Pyrocat-HD (with 100% crop)? how Pyrocat working with +- stop exposition error on HP5?

PS I have some expirience with PyrocatHD and 510-Pyro. yes, sharpness is great. but this is not a fine grain developers

bwfans · Feb 17, 2011

I am a little puzzled by your experiment. My straight feeling is, the right one is much much better than the left one. The left one seems washed. The right one has more shadow details. IMHO with only those two choices I would just use D76 instead of two bath method.

squinonescolon · Feb 17, 2011

Which just goes to show how subjective photography or any other image-making process can be. To me the left image is obviously the worse image. There is almost no frame of reference when you're talking about things like sharpness, shadow detail, etc. Even empirical testing, graphs, charts would give you something that in a general sense doesn't satisfy our senses and in contrast to what we think we can see. Even here when we are plainly looking at the same images we can't agree on what looks "better" or "worse". These kind of tests are great in the privacy of your own darkroom, or perhaps posted and simply stating what was done without any comments as to preference would be more valuable to the community, otherwise these threads can loose their usefulness. What makes you happy, and what makes the image "work" for you, and your public, are the only and final arbiters.

Relayer · Feb 17, 2011

ok. follow is some "puzzle"
HP5+ 400@400
one side - D76 1:1 13min
other side - lazy split D76 6+3min
where is who?

100% crop

note that in all samples contrast is untouched (i.e. as in negatives)

pgomena · Feb 18, 2011

I'm going to guess that the picture on the left is D-76 1:1. The overall contrast is better and the grain looks sharper. I'm also going to hazard a guess that this shot is a little overexposed. Overexposure will cause increased graininess.

Peter Gomena

Relayer · Feb 18, 2011

ok Peter. will wait for other opinions

garysamson · Feb 18, 2011

I would also consider using PMK Pyro developer with Ilford HP5+. A suggested starting point would be an EI of 250 for outdoor sunny scenes and a development time of 10.5 minutes at 75F or 24C with agitation every 20 seconds after an initial 30 seconds of agitation at the start. The dilution of the developer is the normal 10ml of part A and 20ml of part B with 1000 ml of water. I think you will find grain and sharpness to be quite good.

Relayer · Feb 19, 2011

garysamson said:
I would also consider using PMK Pyro developer with Ilford HP5+. A suggested starting point would be an EI of 250 for outdoor sunny scenes.

thank you for suggestion, but EI 250 for HP5+ isn't good for me

Rick A · Feb 19, 2011

Maybe HP5+ isn't for you. Maybe you should shoot one of the "T" grain films or a chromogenic c-41 to attain the look you are after.
Bottom line, if you really like what you have by your method, stay the course and ignore the openions.

Relayer · Feb 19, 2011

strange talks. I was share some results which produce good negatives on HP5 at EI 400/800. why I need to change to Pyrocat or other film? I don't understand. If you like Tgrain/Pyrocat - no problem. but how this related to D76 1:1/split developer?

Keith Tapscott. said:
If you dilute your D-76 using one part stock with one part water, you will get better control of contrast and better sharpness with only a negligible difference in grain. Forget about the two-bath.

bwfans said:
I am a little puzzled by your experiment.

squinonescolon said:
Which just goes to show how subjective photography or any other image-making process can be. To me the left image is obviously the worse image.

guys, still waiting your suggestions about D76 1:1 vs lazy split

tkamiya · Feb 19, 2011

Referring to the original set, not the one right above:

Right side has more density, perhaps resulting from longer time spent in D76. Contrast is little higher, too.
But, I am not able to judge the grain.... if anything it looks to be about the same.

"Sharpness" is often confused with localized contrast, ie. denser shadow right next to highlight. Other than obvious density difference, sharpness looks to be about the same....

Again, kid of hard to do this over web images even at 100% crop. (by the way, what does this mean in scanned analog image?)

Rick A · Feb 19, 2011

tkamiya said:
.

Again, kid of hard to do this over web images even at 100% crop. (by the way, what does this mean in scanned analog image?)

I always thought 100% crop meant printing full frame with no cropping, no clue as to digischist.

2F/2F · Feb 19, 2011

Just learn how to expose and develop your film properly and you can get what you want every time. D-76 is more than adequate. No need to monkey with it and pretend to be able to split hairs.

Relayer · Feb 23, 2011

pgomena said:
I'm going to guess that the picture on the left is D-76 1:1. The overall contrast is better and the grain looks sharper. I'm also going to hazard a guess that this shot is a little overexposed. Overexposure will cause increased graininess.

because we haven't any other suggestion I'm must share who is who. on the last picture left side is lazy-split D76, right - D76 1:1.
I think that lazy-split D76 allow reduce dev time with result very like to D76 1:1

Monday317 · Oct 4, 2015

squinonescolon said:
Which just goes to show how subjective photography or any other image-making process can be. To me the left image is obviously the worse image. There is almost no frame of reference when you're talking about things like sharpness, shadow detail, etc. Even empirical testing, graphs, charts would give you something that in a general sense doesn't satisfy our senses and in contrast to what we think we can see. Even here when we are plainly looking at the same images we can't agree on what looks "better" or "worse". These kind of tests are great in the privacy of your own darkroom, or perhaps posted and simply stating what was done without any comments as to preference would be more valuable to the community, otherwise these threads can loose their usefulness. What makes you happy, and what makes the image "work" for you, and your public, are the only and final arbiters.

Late to the party, but +1 nonetheless. If whatever camera, film, chemistry, and print technique works for you as a photographer--then that's the right stuff period. End of discussion; all the rest of us can do is add opinion, which like selohssa, everyone has...

Lazy split D76

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