Late model Nikon bodies with matte screens.

[waynecrider]

I'm trying to get a hold on which later model Nikon bodies, specifically F series (A,M,E,G) and N bodies came with a matte screen without a split image rangefinder. (Which usually goes black in stop down mode.) Thanks

 

[LiamG]

I'm pretty sure all those cameras came stock with the "K" split/microprism screen.

Edit: I see you included the N's as well, I don't know anything about that series of Nikons, can't help you there.

 

[Chan Tran]

I'm trying to get a hold on which later model Nikon bodies, specifically F series (A,M,E,G) and N bodies came with a matte screen without a split image rangefinder. (Which usually goes black in stop down mode.) Thanks

All of the manual focus cameras came with the split image rangefinder. A number of them you can change the focusing screen. All of the auto focus don't have split image.

 

[waynecrider]

All of the manual focus cameras came with the split image rangefinder. A number of them you can change the focusing screen. All of the auto focus don't have split image.

That figures on the AF. Why would you need it.

Anyone here shoot a FG with non-Ai lenses. It's suppose to meter with them on. I bet in stop down tho.

 

[Les Sarile]

I don't know if this is a consideration but the Nikon K3 screen - released with the FM3A but usable in the FA, FM2, FE2, is a split image rangefinder that will never go dark using slow lenses, stop down or even bellows.

 

[Les Sarile]

The FG is not intended to mount non AI lenses but if you're able to then it will meter. Of course you can use it in aperture priority too.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

The FG doesn't have a DOF preview lever, so it can't stop down the lens to working aperture for metering with the normal Nikkors with automatic diaphragm. And to mount a Non-Ai lens will be difficult, at least with some Nikkor lens as they have a ridge surrounding the mount that will clash with the AI tab on the body.
For lens without automatic diaphragm or preset aperture, then it can meter at the working aperture.

If you want a body that can use AI and Non-Ai lens, look for one with a movable AI tab: the original FM and FE, as well as the Nikon (Nikkormat series) EL2 or the FT3, as well as the F2, F3 or F4. They all came from factory prepared for that compatibility.

About the K3 screen: be aware that if used with those earlier cameras, some exposure compensation maybe needed as the meter system isn't made for that screen. The K3 is brighter than the previous K2 or K screens. See here: http://mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonfeseries/fefmshared/html/screens.htm

 

[Steve Smith]

The FG doesn't have a DOF preview lever, so it can't stop down the lens to working aperture for metering with the normal Nikkors with automatic diaphragm. And to mount a Non-Ai lens will be difficult, at least with some Nikkor lens as they have a ridge surrounding the mount that will clash with the AI tab on the body.

My pre-AI Nikkors fit on my FG. The ridge does not seem to interfere with the AI tab.

EDIT: My 105mm f2.5 pushes the tab back towards the body a little but it is not a tight fit and doesn't impede the movement of the aperture ring. I suspect though that there might be some variance between lenses either by design or by tolerance. The 35mm Nikkor-S fits with no problems. My 200mm Nikkor - Q C is the same as the 105mm and my 50mm Nikkor - S has had a file taken to it by a previous owner to mate with the AI tab but I suspect that without it, it too would mount the same as the 105mm

The FG is not intended to mount non AI lenses but if you're able to then it will meter. Of course you can use it in aperture priority too.

The aperture stops down when the shutter is fired but how can it meter if it doesn't know how far away from wide open, the aperture is set?


Steve.

 

[Chan Tran]

That figures on the AF. Why would you need it.

Anyone here shoot a FG with non-Ai lenses. It's suppose to meter with them on. I bet in stop down tho.

I think Nikon didn't dare to include the split image in the AF cameras because it would reveal AF inaccuracy.

 

[waynecrider]

Anyone here shoot a FG with non-Ai lenses. It's suppose to meter with them on. I bet in stop down tho.

I was thinking of another body. For the FG they would have to be converted.

 

[Les Sarile]

My pre-AI Nikkors fit on my FG. The ridge does not seem to interfere with the AI tab.

The aperture stops down when the shutter is fired but how can it meter if it doesn't know how far away from wide open, the aperture is set?
Steve.

I always assumed that the sequence of events for all aperture priority capable manual bodies start with the lens being stopped down followed by a last meter reading at actual aperture setting and that is the case with the FG. Like you, I was able to mount a pre AI lens on my FG that doesn't interfere with the tab and in aperture priority mode tested and verified the assumption. Set it wide open and it fires at the metered speed. Turn the aperture to smallest and as expected the meter is the same as indicated wide open as the tab is not moving. Fire the shutter and now the exposure time is much longer as appropriate to the small aperture.

Of course aperture priority capable manual bodies that meter off the film - like the Olympus OM2, 2S & 4 as well as the Pentax LX, will continue monitoring the scene in real time for light changes and varies exposure time accordingly.

 

[LiamG]

I always assumed that the sequence of events for all aperture priority capable manual bodies start with the lens being stopped down followed by a last meter reading at actual aperture setting and that is the case with the FG. Like you, I was able to mount a pre AI lens on my FG that doesn't interfere with the tab and in aperture priority mode tested and verified the assumption. Set it wide open and it fires at the metered speed. Turn the aperture to smallest and as expected the meter is the same as indicated wide open as the tab is not moving. Fire the shutter and now the exposure time is much longer as appropriate to the small aperture.

Of course aperture priority capable manual bodies that meter off the film - like the Olympus OM2, 2S & 4 as well as the Pentax LX, will continue monitoring the scene in real time for light changes and varies exposure time accordingly.

This is not the sequence of events for all aperture priority bodies. Imagine the shutter lag this would add to camera that use a mirror relay meter! Also, the whole point of Nikon's AI-S 'upgrade' with respect to aperture linearity would be lost. What you are experiencing is due to the FG having some elements of the FA's 'closed loop' exposure system- if it detects that the lens isn't AI-S, it tries to correct the exposure.

 

[Steve Smith]

I will have to find my FG manual to check, but I think in manual mode, it measures the light at the time of exposure so assuming the aperture has closed down, it should be able to work.

I don't see how aperture priority can work though.


Steve.

 

[fstop]

This is not the sequence of events for all aperture priority bodies. Imagine the shutter lag this would add to camera that use a mirror relay meter! Also, the whole point of Nikon's AI-S 'upgrade' with respect to aperture linearity would be lost. What you are experiencing is due to the FG having some elements of the FA's 'closed loop' exposure system- if it detects that the lens isn't AI-S, it tries to correct the exposure.

What?

 

[LiamG]

I will have to find my FG manual to check, but I think in manual mode, it measures the light at the time of exposure so assuming the aperture has closed down, it should be able to work.

I don't see how aperture priority can work though.


Steve.

On page 21 of the FG manual Nikon mentions that the camera goes into 'closed loop' mode in P and A; I guess it probably reads the exposure off the film plane after the mirror has gone up, if it waited for the aperture to stop down before it fired the mirror, that would slow down everything- it might, though, I don't own one to check with.

 

[Steve Smith]

On page 21 of the FG manual Nikon mentions that the camera goes into 'closed loop' mode in P and A; I guess it probably reads the exposure off the film plane after the mirror has gone up, if it waited for the aperture to stop down before it fired the mirror, that would slow down everything- it might, though, I don't own one to check with.

Then I stand corrected. I knew it did that for P but thinking about it, there's no reason why it can't do it in A too.

EDIT: I have just tried it and it does appear to work in both A and P.

In which case, the AI indexing only really helps you in showing the user what the shutter speed will be in A and P modes. It is most useful when manual shutter speeds are being used.


Steve.

 

[fstop]

With Ai you don't have to do the nikon shuffle with twisting the aperture ring back and forth, this is the real benefit.Mount the lens and you are done.

 

[Les Sarile]

On page 21 of the FG manual Nikon mentions that the camera goes into 'closed loop' mode in P and A; I guess it probably reads the exposure off the film plane after the mirror has gone up, if it waited for the aperture to stop down before it fired the mirror, that would slow down everything- it might, though, I don't own one to check with.

Too bad you don't own one as it is easy to check. Good point that you brought up reading off the film plane as in fact it has a backward looking sensor that it could possibly meter after the mirror is raised but apparently that is only used by the TTL flash.

Unfortunately I don't have the magazine review of the FG that may have detailed out the sequence like it did for the OM2 but it is easy enough to test. So I did the exact same test as before except that this time I covered the backward point meter cel in the box. Meter wide open it fires at a fast shutter then stop the lens down - meter is unchanged as the tab is not actuated, but shutter is much slower when fired. Conclusion is therefore that it must takes one last look at the meter prior to raising the mirror.

BTW, the whole sequence would still take the same time whether if it looks at the meter prior to raising the meter or after by reading off the plane. Since these are no longer CDS cels, metering is fairly instantaneous.

 

[Chan Tran]

I don't think it read the film plane but rather made a stop down reading before the mirror goes up.

 

[Les Sarile]

OK we can officially close out the FG metering sequence - http://imaging.nikon.com/history/cousins/cousins12-e/

Scroll down to the section "Instant stop-down metering" it lists the sequence of events as stop down, read meter then flip mirror.