Last word: Rolleiflex vs. hassy?

JW PHOTO · Oct 31, 2013

TheFlyingCamera said:
The vibration is caused by the impact of the mirror slapping into the frame of the body when you release the shutter. It is present in the Hassy, obvious in a Pentax 67, and non-existent in a Rolleiflex (or any other TLR). It is most problematic at the slow end of the hand-holdable shutter speed continuum- between say 1 second and 1/15th, maybe up to 1/30th. Faster than that, there isn't enough time for the vibrations to record. Slower, and they fail to record as well because they don't last long enough. Oddly, the lack of sharpness they cause will be more noticeable when the camera is on a tripod. Hand-held, your hand is more likely to induce softness by its inherent instability than the mirror slap is.

I don't know about that? I tested my 500C/80mm f2.8 years ago and I could see(with a loupe) a minute difference between mirror-up on a tripod and just shooting normal at 1/60th of a second. At 1/125th second things seemed to even out. I would still not worry at 1/60th since the difference was so small, but I don't like going below that if I can help it. If the picture is important and I do have to go slower a tripod+mirror-up is used. Just me of course! I do the same when I shoot with the Pentax 67. I'll admit I can hand-hold at much slower shutter speeds with the Rollei due to the way it's held and braced with a neck strap, but I still use a tripod if the shot is worth it. JohnW

BrianShaw · Oct 31, 2013

TheFlyingCamera said:
... Oddly, the lack of sharpness they cause will be more noticeable when the camera is on a tripod. Hand-held, your hand is more likely to induce softness by its inherent instability than the mirror slap is.

Interestingly (or not), my experience has been just the opposite. The Hassy "vibration" is mitigated somewhat for me with a monopod and entirely with a tripod. When handheld I'm never really sure if the unsharpness is due to mirror slap or regular hand tremor. I find that when shooting lower speeds handheld it is easier to be successful with a TLR than a Hassy SLR, but that may be partly due to weight and shutter release design differences.

Edit: or in other words... what JW just said.

JW PHOTO · Oct 31, 2013

BrianShaw said:
Interestingly (or not), my experience has been just the opposite. The Hassy "vibration" is mitigated somewhat for me with a monopod and entirely with a tripod. When handheld I'm never really sure if the unsharpness is due to mirror slap or regular hand tremor. I find that when shooting lower speeds handheld it is easier to be successful with a TLR than a Hassy SLR, but that may be partly due to weight and shutter release design differences.

Edit: or in other words... what JW just said.

Yup, but maybe that's just us Brian! I do know I am blessed with tremors + a inner-ear balance/equilibrium problem and that's another excuse to use a tripod. I still think that had I not developed these problems that the outcome would be the same. I do know, that for me the heavier the better for hand-holding. Within reason of course. JohnW

Bob Marvin · Oct 31, 2013

RE: Quick loading. it's certainly quicker to change the magazine on a Hasselblad than to load a Rollei, but re-loading that magazine with film is another matter. My Rolleiflex 2.8E is the easiest-loading medium format camera I own and the only one I can load while it's hanging from a neck strap.

JW PHOTO · Oct 31, 2013

Bob Marvin said:
RE: Quick loading. it's certainly quicker to change the magazine on a Hasselblad than to load a Rollei, but re-loading that magazine with film is another matter. My Rolleiflex 2.8E is the easiest-loading medium format camera I own and the only one I can load while it's hanging from a neck strap.

Yes, I do agree with the ease of loading a Rollei, but it's even easier to load the old "pre-feeler" Rollei's. Also, the plus side for the Hasselblad with swapping backs is in the use of the Zone System for B&W photography. I know the "so called" Zone System isn't as popular as it was a few years back, but some folks still adhere to it like Christens to the New Testament. If you have three backs you load them all with the same film (already tested for your own ISO/EI and Normal development) and label them as N-1, N and N+1. Pick your scenes, expose and then develop the roll according to the label on the back. Can't do that with a Rollei! I'll admit that I have not used this in years, but did at one time use it with Tri-X and HC-110 dilution B and it worked near perfect. Of course at that time I was using only Ilford Ilfobrom Grade #2. Now, I just get my exposures right and development right then VC paper takes care of the rest. JohnW

ntenny · Oct 31, 2013

It seems like the effect of mirror slap would be emphasized if the tripod is close to its weight limit or the head is a little bit dodgy, but not if it's overbuilt for the camera in question. I'm just thinking from first principles here, but basically the question is whether that little amount of force will cause anything in the camera/head/legs chain to move, and obviously the answer is yes if there's some play in the linkage.

Handholding makes it virtually impossible to distinguish between mirror slap and other sources of movement, of course.

-NT

Fast · Oct 31, 2013

I wonder some times if this is a forum about photography, or if it's a foram for people to "show off" about their knowlege of cameras. Everyone here wants to have the "last word" because they think their last word is the best. Throw out your ego-compitition, and go take pictures.

BrianShaw · Oct 31, 2013

I feel compelled to ask at the risk of seeming offensive... but what part of that comment was useful to the discussion. If you have no interest in this topic, why not heed your own advise?

Tom1956 · Oct 31, 2013

Every forum is for people to "show off" their knowledge. It's called "discussion". Nobody is honestly trying to win a pissing contest.

DREW WILEY · Oct 31, 2013

Years ago, when my brother was actually selling Linhofs and Rolleis, a favorite sales trick was to put an SL66 right down on the sales counter
(no tripod involved), balance a dime on end atop it, and trip the shutter. The dime didn't even budge. If I tried that trick with my Pentax 67,
even using the mirror lock, the dime would probably go flying as far as a slot machine in Las Vegas. Even with later Rollei MF SLR's the whole mirror/shutter operation seems remarkably smooth, if that happens to be your prime criterion. I mention that stipulation, because whenever
we went out shooting together, he preferred to borrow my Pentax.

sdotkling · Oct 31, 2013

It's actually amazing that in this digital age, we can fill 6 pages comparing Hasselblads and Rolleis. I love my Rollei (an oldie from the 50's) but I gotta admit, it is getting damn hard to focus on that silky-smooth focusing screen. The Hasselblad is no easier, but I have the option of my 45-degree finder. Wish I had a split-image thing on the focusing screen of the Rollei.

DREW WILEY · Oct 31, 2013

Either way, if one of those flea-infested little pixels comes scurrying out from under a log out in the woods, a good vintage medium format will
suffice to smash it. Easier than carrying along boxes of DCon.

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 31, 2013

I agree 100% with you, Drew. The supposed 'problems' with mirror shake is vastly unimportant in the grand scheme of things. Hasselblad, Rollei SLR, Pentax 67, etc are incredible machines, and have proven themselves highly successful, regardless of what people here opine.
They all work beautifully, and I think it's a thing of personal preference which ones we choose as a tool.

Roger Cole · Oct 31, 2013

Harry Fleenor (and possibly others - I don't know how difficult it is) can fit a much brighter screen to a Rollei TLR.

That's one area where my Yashicamat 124 probably beats the German machine it was emulating - the screen is nice and bright.

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JW PHOTO · Oct 31, 2013

Roger Cole said:
Harry Fleenor (and possibly others - I don't know how difficult it is) can fit a much brighter screen to a Rollei TLR.

That's one area where my Yashicamat 124 probably beats the German machine it was emulating - the screen is nice and bright.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Roger,
We're talking all this fancy German - Swedish stuff and you inject something from Japan? Just kidding! Like I said earlier, if I want a fun, fast, easy, great picture taking machine then I grab my 124G. Plus, if I dropped that or somebody swiped it while I wasn't looking, I could live with it. One of the other "good" cameras has that happen and I might commit Hara-kiri. Whoops, I guess I'd just do that for the Japanese Yashica. Actually the camera is only a "light tight box" it's the lens that's magic. JohnW

JW PHOTO · Oct 31, 2013

JW PHOTO said:
I just bought a 3.5F from KEH in "Ugly" condition for $199.00. It doesn't have the waist level finder and the meter is not working, but the camera looked pretty darn nice from the picture. I'm curious to see what it looks like when I get it. I have a few parts for the body and a meter+cell, but if the lens it bad I might think of a polish job also. What does a front cell polish usually run cost wise? JohnW

I got the 3.5F from KEH today and this lens has to go nowhere. To my surprise it's nearly perfect! Both the taking and viewing lens are in fantastic shape. The meter doesn't work, but the cell is fine. It came with no waist level finder so I'm going to put a prism on to for now and see how it does. Both of those things were mentioned in the description so KEH was honest there. Oh, it looks as good or better than it did in KEH's picture add. I have bought several things from KEH over the years and have never been disappointed. Knock on wood! Best money I have spent on a camera in a long time. Actually the lenses in the condition they are in and shutter are worth what I paid for the whole camera. I have ten rolls of Arista 200 coming from Freestyle tomorrow and then it will be test time. Who knows, maybe I'll bench my Hasselblad for a spell? JohnW

Pioneer · Nov 1, 2013

JW PHOTO said:
Roger,
Actually the camera is only a "light tight box" it's the lens that's magic. JohnW

I think I have to disagree. The camera is a light tight box for sure, but not just "only". The camera is also "magic" as it is the interface between you and that lens.

Roger Cole · Nov 1, 2013

JW PHOTO said:
Roger,
We're talking all this fancy German - Swedish stuff and you inject something from Japan? Just kidding! Like I said earlier, if I want a fun, fast, easy, great picture taking machine then I grab my 124G. Plus, if I dropped that or somebody swiped it while I wasn't looking, I could live with it. One of the other "good" cameras has that happen and I might commit Hara-kiri. Whoops, I guess I'd just do that for the Japanese Yashica. Actually the camera is only a "light tight box" it's the lens that's magic. JohnW

I love my Yashicamat too. It may have to go for device soon because it now sometimes doesn't stop winding after 12 frames and goes on to 24 even though the pressure plate is properly set for 120/12 (it differs from the G in how this is selected.) I have recently kept going and "shot some (non)photos I really wanted on film that wasn't there. If you keep track it isn't a big problem, just wind and fire 12 phantom frames and you're done.

I really wanted a Rolleicord that was on here but talked myself out of spending the money because I had the Yadhica.

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JW PHOTO · Nov 1, 2013

Pioneer said:
I think I have to disagree. The camera is a light tight box for sure, but not just "only". The camera is also "magic" as it is the interface between you and that lens.

I think we are both on the right track. I know I could take the lens from a Rollei or off my Hasselblad and put it on a homemade light-tight box, take a photo with it then the same shot on camera and you would be able to see a difference. Now, take the same camera and same light tight box and swap out the lens for a coke bottle. Of course I have never shoot through a coke bottle so I really should make a comment like that I guess. You are right in that it's much easier to head into the forest with a Rollei for shooting then it is to take that light-tight box with a lens on it. So, I guess we're splitting hair between lens quality of a Hasselblad, Rollei, Pentax, Bronica, Mamiya, Yashica or whatever. What it boils down to is which one feels good in hand and suits you the best, feature wise and handling. I have been using my Hasselblad and Rollei much more then my Pentax 67 outfit lately, but I can sure do a whole lot more with the Pentax than I can with either of the other two when I have two. Just me of course! JohnW

BrianShaw · Nov 1, 2013

Roger Cole said:
I really wanted a Rolleicord that was on here but talked myself out of spending the money because I had the Yadhica.

I've endured 17 years of marriage to someone who is NOT an engineer and finally got out of that mindset. My wife's attitude is, "if you have the money then spend it if that is what you want." How many more years do you need to overcome being an engineer, Roger?

p.s. I use the word "endure" in the most endearing of ways. The challenge has been with me, not her. (There... getting to year 18 will now be a bit easier.)

TheFlyingCamera · Nov 1, 2013

sdotkling said:
It's actually amazing that in this digital age, we can fill 6 pages comparing Hasselblads and Rolleis. I love my Rollei (an oldie from the 50's) but I gotta admit, it is getting damn hard to focus on that silky-smooth focusing screen. The Hasselblad is no easier, but I have the option of my 45-degree finder. Wish I had a split-image thing on the focusing screen of the Rollei.

You can get custom screens for Rolleis if you want - even in the older cameras, but you'll need professional installation in the pre-F models. I'm planning on having bright screens put in both of my E's soon.

Pioneer · Nov 1, 2013

I have one in my Rollei Automat and love it.

Sirius Glass · Nov 1, 2013

Hasselblad. Why would one think otherwise?

Bob Marvin · Nov 1, 2013

One might be familiar with Rolleis

Sirius Glass · Nov 1, 2013

Lack of knowledge is no excuse!

Just do a little research.

Last word: Rolleiflex vs. hassy?

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