Last MF cameras to use flash bulbs?

jay moussy · Nov 27, 2023

On another forum, someone reminisced about his TLR, running 120 film and using flashbulbs.

The question is, which and when were flashbulbs last used on MF cameras?

DWThomas · Nov 27, 2023

Hmm -- can't say I would lose sleep over it, but I own a Yashica Mat 124g which I believe was their last TLR model. I think production ended circa 1982, and it has M as well as X sync. That said, when I sent it to Mark Hama for a CLA he installed a small fillister head screw that blocks the lever from going to M because there is a long standing idiosyncrasy that attempting to use the self timer whilst in M sync hangs up the shutter. That suggests maybe the M sync delay shares the timer.

Beyond that I can't even guess when other brands and models went to strictly X.

ic-racer · Nov 27, 2023

I think the first Rolleiflex without an M-synch (for flash bulbs) might have been the SLX about 1975. M-synch was still available on the TLR cameras until 1987 when the 2.8GX came out with only X-synch.

Paul Howell · Nov 27, 2023

Mamiya Universal was produced until 1991.

jay moussy · Nov 27, 2023

So, what were bulb flash units like then?

Sirius Glass · Nov 27, 2023

Flashbulbs, M or X synch, have be used for many decades. Strobes have been available and usable on X synch since at least since the 1960s.

DWThomas · Nov 27, 2023

jay moussy said:
So, what were bulb flash units like then?

Well here's a small glimpse in a thread that has been beaten to death ...

In some cases the camera manufacturer offered designs for their specific cameras, and many inexpensive consumer cameras had a built-in flash. My Argus C-3 came with a separate unit that ran on two 'C' cells and attached to the camera via two 'banana' plugs on the side. (By 1957 or so when my C-3 was made, the built-in sync was 'X' and one had to use slow shutter speeds - 1/25th sec - to catch the peak of light from the flashbulb just before the shutter closed.)

In both of the above cases there were some variations over the years to accommodate newer, different shaped flashbulbs that had different bases requiring different sockets. Some designs very cleverly accepted two or three different bases in one socket.

Early press cameras often used a tall tubular column with 3 or 4 'D' cells that attached on the side of the camera as a handle of sorts. In more recent times those have been in high demand for use as "light sabers" by folks playing Star Wars stuff.

itsdoable · Nov 27, 2023

I started shooting in the late 70's and flash bulbs were already out of production. The Vivitar 283 had been out for most of that decade, and was the go-to flash.

But we shot a lot of flash bulbs because 1) the unit were cheap (lots of discarded units) and 2) NOS bulbs were plentiful, we would pick up boxes of them at swap-meets for nothing.

Flash bulbs came in multiple flavours, FP, M and X sync optimized, and daylight/non-daylight balanced.

FP bulbs had a long uniform output so you could sync a focal plan shutter at higher speeds (as HSFS today)

M bulbs took a little time to build up to full brightness, but did not have a uniform output, and were used with leaf shutters at higher speeds.

X bulbs were fast bulbs that worked on X sync - and because of these bulbs, all MF cameras back then could use flash bulbs, including latter ones that did not have an FP or M sync.

We bought every FP bulb we could find, because HSFS was not available back then. But M/X bulbs were still useful, as they were way brighter than the 283.

Fun times.

bdial · Nov 27, 2023

I last used flash bulbs with 35mm sometime around 1968, give or take. That would have been AG-1 bulbs. I was in high school and did pictures for the student newspaper and yearbook.
In the early 1980’s I had a polaroid SX-70 that used flash bars, which were more or less 5 or 6 AG-1’s in a package.

Paul Howell · Nov 27, 2023

When I was a working PJ I carried a small electronic flash, I think it was Vivitar, same size as the Nikon unit which did not have a bounce feature. But, until I upgraded to a F2 I also carried a flash bulb unit along with 3 M5 bear bulbs. The Braun flash blub folded up had a tilt head, and M 5 bulbs had a high guide number, more than double of the small Vivitar, never used it.

Dustin McAmera · Nov 27, 2023

I don't know much about flash, but this might be among the earliest uses of gas-discharge tube flash, in about 1950.
This company, Dawe Instruments, sold two different cameras, both able to use either flash bulbs or a discharge tube. Batteries house in the camera powered the bulb flash, and the shutter solenoid, and a twin-beam rangefinder (like the Kalart RF). The discharge-tube flash required an external battery pack bigger than the camera.

Dawe Instruments - Camera-wiki.org - The free camera encyclopedia

camera-wiki.org

There's a link there to the patent for the synchronising device for use with the tube flash. Interestingly, it's mechanical - a spring-loaded flywheel, not a delay circuit. But does the fact that a synchronising delay device is needed mean that this isn't X-synch?

wiltw · Nov 27, 2023

My first 'electronic flash' that I purchased was in about 1966, it had neither autoexposure nor the use of thyristor to converve on the amount of current that was taken from its batteries.
The Kodak Flash Cube was launched in about 1965. The Polaroid Flashbar for the SX-70 was launched in 1972

DWThomas · Nov 27, 2023

Dustin McAmera said:
There's a link there to the patent for the synchronising device for use with the tube flash. Interestingly, it's mechanical - a spring-loaded flywheel, not a delay circuit. But does the fact that a synchronising delay device is needed mean that this isn't X-synch?

That suggests the camera was likely 'M' sync for native handling of the most common flashbulbs and the synchronizer provided a way to delay power to trigger an electronic flash by about 20 milliseconds to coincide with the shutter opening.

Dustin McAmera · Nov 28, 2023

Oh yes - thanks. I didn't think it through. The delay is in the other direction, waiting until the shutter's ready.

Donald Qualls · Nov 28, 2023

My I believe all the Sekor C lenses I own for my RB67 have M and X switches -- those might have been made anywhere from the late 1960s until nearly 1980.

Axelwik · Nov 28, 2023

I last used flashbulbs with a Leica M3 on a trip to Europe about 5 years ago. A lot of light in a small package. No issues going through TSA and the European equivalent. Got some really nice photos with them, including some with a 15mm lens in a confined area by keeping the reflector folded.

Kth88 · Dec 22, 2023

The Rapid-Omega 6x7 medium format cameras were made until 1981 I believe. These cameras included X/M flash synch switches on the lenses. Any of the Koni-Omega or Rapid-Omega series of cameras all use the same lenses.

If you want a more modern MF system with native M-synchronization you can always use an older Hasselblad lens on a newer Hasselblad body.

The other option that will work with any camera with a screw-in cable release socket is to find an old 1940s or 1950s bulb synchronization cable release system. These were somewhat common back before all cameras had built-in flash synchronization, and are not too hard to find today. Basically the shutter delay necessary for flashbulb synchronization is built into the cable release system itself. Search for Kalart Flash Synchronizer and you will find an example of what I'm talking about.

Note that the M-synch bulbs (e.g., No.5, No.25, etc) work primarily with leaf shutters. If you want to synchronize with a focal plane shutter camera you will need to use FP class flashbulbs like No.6 or No.26 bulbs.

eli griggs · Dec 22, 2023

Polaroid cameras that took flash bars.

Last MF cameras to use flash bulbs?

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