Largeformat with a tour group?

BradS · Jan 5, 2006

My wife and I are leaving next week for a brief vacation to a very photogenic location. This'll be a 'once in a life time' adventure. The problem is, we'll be joining a non-photo related tour group. Due to the nature of the location, I'd really, really like to bring the largeformat field kit but, am very concerned that the other 30+ or so members of the group, all non photographers, wouldn't be too patient with me. I am virtually assured that there won't be enough time to properly do LF photography.

So, I have a decision to make. Either take the LF gear and accept that there maybe little opportunity to use it or take the 35mm kit and 'blend in' with the rest of the group. I guess there is a third option. Take the LF kit and a very, very minimal 35mm kit (one body and perhaps two lenses) and see what the situation is when I get there.

Any thoughts? Is there any practical way to do LF photography as a memeber of an ordinary tour group?

David A. Goldfarb · Jan 5, 2006

Boy, do I hate tour groups, but for some locations it's the only option.

I'd bring the largest thing you can handhold.

Les McLean · Jan 5, 2006

I'd take ther LF gear Brad and make them wait as long as I could then stand the flak after the event. It's a once in a lifetime chance so be selfish. Not the best way to win friends but hey fella this is photography that we are messing with. Whatever you decide have a great time

Les McLean · Jan 5, 2006

I'd take the LF gear Brad and make them wait as long as I could then stand the flak after the event. It's a once in a lifetime chance so be selfish. Not the best way to win friends but hey fella this is photography that we are messing with. Whatever you decide have a great time

Steve Hamley · Jan 5, 2006

I'd take a MF rangefinder/folder - rent one if you have to. The usual suspects are the Mamiya 6/7II series and a 3-lens set, Fuji GA645Zi, Fuji GS series, or older Zeiss folder to 6x9cm.

Steve

JasonC · Jan 5, 2006

How about medium format, such as 6x7 and 6x9? This will be a good compromise between LF and 35mm. If you really want to take LF, just go for it. You are not there to make friends with your fellow group members. My wife and I are the usual odd couple with the biggest cameras when traveling with tour groups.

Jason.

grahamp · Jan 5, 2006

When you are moving around on a schedule, my advice is to travel as light as possible. Even with understanding companions the stresses of travel can get in the way. Unfamiliar environments can inhibit image-making. It depends on how you work.

I have a selection of medium format equipment so I have an option between 35mm and 5x4. My usual travel camera is a 6x6 - decent film size and portable enough that it can go everywhere with me.

I suggest you take the 35mm, a tripod, a spare body, and a small selection of lenses. No point in not enjoying the trip!

BradS · Jan 5, 2006

Yeah, I guess the intelligent choice would be a Mamiya 7 or one of the (sadly) extinct Fuji GW-670/690 rangefinders. Unfortunately, I don't have any MF gear of any kind. I guess I could hand hold the ebony (a la Ole's Avatar) but, wouldn't really feel so comfy with that.

Here's my bag. This, a tripod (Bogen 3021 w/3047) and a small bag for film works for me in the field....

severian · Jan 5, 2006

take the lf

Brad,
On my last trip to Paris I decided not to take the 8x10. I took the Blad. I shot a lot. It is light and convenient. When I got back and began printing the negs the only thing going through my mind was "there OK but they are not 8x10" Same story the last time in NYC. Our hotel on w 62nd had a 38th floor observation deck, The stuff with the blad is .....good but its not 8x10. The minute I saw the city from that height I knew I made a mistake and wanted to kick myself in the ass. By the way I shoot very very little other than 8x10 the Hasselblad is simply no match. It's men against boys. The answer for me is never ever travel without the LF gear. I've gone small and light. Zone 6 ultralightweight camera. Carbon fiber Gitzo tripod. 5 film holders and a changing bag. I travel everywhere in the world with this rig in a carryon bag along with clothes etc. and never check in
luggage. Take the format that you KNOW you must have. Hope you have a good trip.
Jack

BradS · Jan 5, 2006

grahamp said:
When you are moving around on a schedule, my advice is to travel as light as possible. Even with understanding companions the stresses of travel can get in the way. Unfamiliar environments can inhibit image-making. It depends on how you work.

I have a selection of medium format equipment so I have an option between 35mm and 5x4. My usual travel camera is a 6x6 - decent film size and portable enough that it can go everywhere with me.

I suggest you take the 35mm, a tripod, a spare body, and a small selection of lenses. No point in not enjoying the trip!

Hi Graham, I certainly agree....and this is the torment of the matter. I have gone back and forth, back and forth. Ebony? or Nikon? Now, I must decide.
The thing is, if I don't take the LF gear and I recognize anything that remotely smells like it might have been an opportunity to use it while I'm there...I'll likely be bummed. If I take the big kit and realize after a couple of days on tour that it's just not going to work out, well, maybe that won't be so bad....

roteague · Jan 5, 2006

I did it once. I wound up shooting mostly the Nikon. Those tour groups usually move too fast for you to get any successful LF shots. Take the Nikon, or a MF kit. Save the LF for a return trip.

Monophoto · Jan 5, 2006

Brad -

That's a very tough choice. I think the answer comes down to exactly how important it is that you have the ability to do LF work in the locale.

Last spring, a local engineering group was given a tour of a 100 year old hydroelectric power plant. That presented me with a similar quandary, and I chose to take the LF equipment (in a backpack much like yours), and when the right opportunity came along, I did my thing and let the other folks wait for me. Actually, one guy had his high school son with him, and the kid had never seen a LF camera, and he was thrilled when I let him see what happens on the ground glass. So I didn't feel all that guilty.

grahamp · Jan 5, 2006

When we were in the UK and Sweden last year I took my Mamiya 6 and a Zero Image 6x9 pinhole. A monopod for the M6, and a table-top tripod for the pinhole. I used both, with some sucess. Did I miss the Wista? Not really. If we had made some of the side trips, maybe, but the pace was too quick.

The 5x4 needs about 10 minutes to make an exposure if I have a fair idea of the viewpoint. That's open the tripod, get the camera out of the bag, mount the right lens, adjust the settings, meter the scene, make the exposure, and pack up.

With smaller formats you can document while you look for the definitive image.

Personally, I would also consider equipment security and portability.

Finally, is this trip being made for photography, or primarily for some other reason (like couple bonding)?

BradS · Jan 5, 2006

Monophoto said:
Brad -

That's a very tough choice. I think the answer comes down to exactly how important it is that you have the ability to do LF work in the locale.

Last spring, a local engineering group was given a tour of a 100 year old hydroelectric power plant. That presented me with a similar quandary, and I chose to take the LF equipment (in a backpack much like yours), and when the right opportunity came along, I did my thing and let the other folks wait for me. Actually, one guy had his high school son with him, and the kid had never seen a LF camera, and he was thrilled when I let him see what happens on the ground glass. So I didn't feel all that guilty.

<grin> It's always fun to see how people react to the image on the ground glass for the first time. We'll be travelling with a bunch of college kids (all biology majors). I wonder how many of them might have ever seen a LF camera....could be an educational opportunity for them.

nworth · Jan 5, 2006

I've tried it. Unless you can get an LF cabel going - three or four practioners on the tour - the group quickly loses patience with you and wants to move on. You also have a remarkable number of loose items with you when you do LF (loupe, focusing cloth, holders, tools, etc.) that are hard to keep together while moving rapidly. A Speed Graphic may be OK, however. I tend to just use my MF (or even digital) in groups. The bigger the group, the worse it is.

Patricia Langer · Jan 5, 2006

Brad I have travelled with my large format equipment in both Greece and France while I was leading, facilitating and handling the logistics for groups of 20 - 30 people. I learned to find ways to make time for photography away from the group. For example, the bus doesn't leave until after breakfast so you have those sweet hours beforehand. And there is always free time. When others are shopping, you photograph. Make friends with the tour operator and plan times and places where you can escape the group and catch up later. I never leave my groups alone or sacrifice their experience for my photography, but I have managed with careful planning to have a good experience with my lf camera.
I agree that it's a good idea to carry a smaller format for walk-around pictures. I guess my botton line is, I would rather come home with only a dozen or so lf negs, rather than the nagging question, 'what if I'd taken it along?'
Patricia

MattCarey · Jan 5, 2006

Brad,

1) You can take my Mockba IV folder if you want some MF stuff. Problem is working with something you aren't used to on a big trip. You are also welcome to any glass I have for either your Nikon or 4x5 stuff, or my Nikonos.

2) You will probably be slower than the rest of the crew even with your 35mm stuff. By the end of the trip, you will be setting up a shot of a tortoise in beautiful light and hear others behind you saying, "I already have a tortoise shot".

3) You will be slower than the rest of the tour (sound familiar?). As you set up a shot with your tripod, you will hear click, click, click, click, click, followed by "One of those shots should look good. I hope I didn't fill up my Sandisk(tm) card". You gotta love those people even as you hate them....

4) See if there is any way to push for some private tour time.

I remember setting up at a water hole in the Hwuange park in Zimbabwe. It was an amazing sight. Imagine elephants, gazelle, zebras, crocodiles, birds, all in one shot. Now image (1) people saying "I already have an elephant shot" and (2) "Dad, when can we go back, this coke is warm". Also imagine being across from a National Geographic photographer team with more Nikon gear than you generally see in a photo store. I got some approving looks from them--sorta like, "keep at it, kid".

Consider if you would be better off spending some time without the camera. I was chastised by my tour group in Palau for bringing my Nikonos on every dive. They said, "Why not just enjoy the dive without the camera". For me, I enjoy the dive more with the camera, but I am a geek.

Matt

MattCarey · Jan 5, 2006

I rememberd another travel story--keep this in mind and be selfish (as has already been suggested).

I went into the Okovango Delta. I had everything pre-arranged. I was on my way, just me and a guide, when we got called back to base camp. There were too many people heading in to the park, so they bunched some of us up. I got put in with two young ladies from Scotland.

You have to pay an extra fee to camp within the park. It was something like $10 a day. The ladies didn't want to pay it. "It will be OK if we stay outside the park and go in during the day...". I told them flat out, I would pay their fee. I had, after all, flown literally half way around the world to be there. Nope, they wouldn't let me (they didn't let this go to discussion, they ganged up on the guide when I wasn't there).

They then proceeded to sleep in the next morning...Too bad that the guides only go in to the park in the morning and evening. Yup, I got to miss a trip into the park because they couldn't get out of their sleeping bags. They were OK with catching sun, though. Somehow, being in one of the world's most special places, it was OK if they didn't see any wildlife as long as they became a little less pale...

It got even better. You see, I climbed a tree so I could watch the wildlife (mostly baboons) on the other side of our island. They told the people back at the base camp that I was trying to sneak a peak at them sunbathing. No offense, but having grown up in Southern California at a time when Dolphin shorts and bikini tops were acceptable attire, watching this particular pair of young ladies was not worth climbing a tree.

Be selfish. Better to have some good pictures that a story like above!

Matt

jimgalli · Jan 5, 2006

Let me know if you want the little Minolta Autocord. I can mail it over. I think it actually weighs less on the neckstrap than an FM. And you never have to muddle over which lens to use.

BradS · Jan 5, 2006

Matt and Jim, Thanks for the offer to loan equipment. I'd be way too paranoid (it could get lost, scratched, a bird could crap on it, I could be befuddled and not figure it out, etc...) to actually take you up on the offers.

Matt, I'm kinda a geek too. When I found out that we'd have about two or three hours each day of "down time" on and around the boat, my first thought was to bring some reading material. First on my list? Principles of Numerical Analysis by Alston S. Householder (C) 1953!

MattCarey · Jan 5, 2006

BradS said:
Principles of Numerical Analysis by Alston S. Householder (C) 1953!

Does that discuss Gaussian Noise?

Matt

BradS · Jan 5, 2006

MattCarey said:
Does that discuss Gaussian Noise?

Matt

well, no...but, it does have an entire chapter devoted to finding the "proper values and vectors of a matrix". It is actually quite entertaining. He refers to the (human) number crunchers of the day as "computers" and recognizes that the digital revolution is well on its way.

Dan Fromm · Jan 5, 2006

BradS said:
well, no...but, it does have an entire chapter devoted to finding the "proper values and vectors of a matrix". It is actually quite entertaining. He refers to the (human) number crunchers of the day as "computers" and recognizes that the digital revolution is well on its way.

Hmm. Use a Friden or SCM desk calculator to multiply two 20x20 matrices and you'll be reduced to counting on your fingers and toes too. Digits have their uses.

One summer I had three SCMs expire in a haze of blue smoke. Three.

Oh! for the good old days!

Scott Peters · Jan 5, 2006

Take the LF

Once in a lifetime...will you have modest to lengthy stops? Where you can get out and stretch and do your own thing? If so, take the LF, otherwise you may regret it. I took medium format and LF to Norway - took mostly MF. Guess what, the LF shot was the best of the bunch....May I ask where you are going? This may alter some folks opinions....

If possible, you may be able to take both?

BradS · Jan 5, 2006

Scott Peters said:
Once in a lifetime...will you have modest to lengthy stops? Where you can get out and stretch and do your own thing? If so, take the LF, otherwise you may regret it. I took medium format and LF to Norway - took mostly MF. Guess what, the LF shot was the best of the bunch....May I ask where you are going? This may alter some folks opinions....

If possible, you may be able to take both?

We're meeting up with a group of college students Equador and going to the Galapagos Islands. They're actually enrolled in an interim course and are supposed to be learning something (ostensibly about Biology and Eco-tourism). My understanding is that once on an island, the rules are pretty strict about staying with the guide, etc...

As far as whether I could bring both, I'm really only limited to what I can reasonably get away with as far as the airlines are concerned. That is to say, all my gear and film has to pass as carry on luggage.

Given the circumstances, it seems that the only rational answer is to take only the 35mm kit.

Still....

Largeformat with a tour group?

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