Large format Lenses: What Fits What?

Stephen Power

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Sorry for the newbie question...How do I work out which LF lens lens board mounted lens will fit which camera? Im especially think about if I want to use a lens that came with a medium format view camera, on a 4x5 or vice versa.

For example, how do I know if my lens for a Horseman 6x9 camera (970), will fit on another MF or even a LF camera?

Thanks for any advice.

 

abruzzi

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if you can mount it on a lens board that fits the camera, then you can mount it to the camera, however to be useful, the lens needs an image circle large enough to cover the film size your shooting, so, for instance, a lens for a 6x9 like your horseman, may fit on a 4x5 camera, but there is a good chance that it won't cover the entire piece of film. In addition, for the lens to be useful, the camera needs enough bellows to focus it. So if you mount a 500mm lens on a camera with 360mm of bellows, you won't be able to focus the lens on infinity, let alone anything closer.
 

btaylor

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I would strongly suggest you head over to the Large Format Photography Forum and look at their info pages. They will likely answer all your questions, which are good ones. LF is dramatically different from smaller formats. As abruzzi says the Topcor is unlikely to cover 4x5 and there would be no room for movements if it did. The great news is that excellent LF lenses can be had for a couple of hundred bucks so you won’t have to spend a lot.
 

Alan9940

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If you want to move LF lenses between various cameras, it's best to settle on a more universal style lensboard, like a Technika, then buy adapter boards for your cameras. These adapters probably aren't available for every conceivable camera so you may need a folks like SK Grimes to make you one. Other than that, lens coverage (image circle size) is something you'll need to determine for each of your lenses which has already been mentioned.
 

B.S.Kumar

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Most Horseman/Topcor lenses have the image circle marked on them, so your specific lens won't cover the 4x5 format. Some lenses do cover, with small movements.

If you want to know whether a specific lens will physically fit a specific camera, the answer is yes, most probably. There are exceptions:
a. Some lenses have very large rear elements and will not fit on many field cameras because the throat on the lens panel is too small. Such lenses can only be mounted by unscrewing the rear group, mounting the front half on the camera and then re-attaching the rear group from the back of the camera.
b. If the lens is mounted on a smaller board, adapters are used to mount them on cameras that use larger boards.
If the lens is mounted on a board larger than the one intended for the desired camera, it must be re-mounted on the smaller board. However, adapters for a few cameras are available, Linhof board on Speed Graphic camera, for example.
c. Some shutters cannot be used with some cameras. For example a Copal 3 shutter cannot be mounted on a Horseman 6x9 camera unless a fairly long spacer is used.

Kumar
 

BradS

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Lensboards fit cameras.
Shutters fit in the holes drilled in the lensboard and...
Lenses fit in the shutters (as you have already discovered).

Most modern 4x5 field cameras have standardized on the Linhof Tech IV style lens boards.

So the important questions are:
  • what lensboards does this camera take?
  • What shutter is this lens set in? (lenses usually come mounted in a shutter...best to leave 'em that way)
  • what size hole does this shutter need?
 

Ian Grant

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Many of my lenses are on Linhof/Wista lens boards so I;ve made adapter boards for my Half plate (7x5) Kodak Specialist 2 and 10x8 Agfa Ansco cameras. That gives me qite a lot of flexibility.

I think in the OP's case the issue is the unique Horseman sized board, an d of course this only covers 6x9 anyway so it's not an LF lens.

Ian
 

138S

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Hello Stephen,

Some large format camera brands use the Linhof Technika board (96x99) others use boards compatible with Sinar 140x140 mm.

Many others use a propietary format, but also there are adpaters to make a camera use lens boards of other brands, Toyo: http://www.toyoview.co.jp/pdf/lb.pdf

Adapters should be a least concern for you, first select your camera, fall in love with it ! and get lens boards for it. For some time you will be quite busy to consider reusing LF lenses for MF , which also is not optimal. You will have to practice movements and Zone System or the like...

If you want to use some lenses in different cameras then you find or you make an adapter to place the smaller lens board in the larger one.

For example I use CAMBO SC and SINAR, so I DIY an adapter:



My adapter fits in the CAMBO SC receptacle and it may take a SINAR lens board. The frame was 3D printed.

You may also fit a 6x9cm roll film back in the rear of your view camera, a big camera to shot bare 6x9cm, but if wanting to shot roll film and not having to hike this may be interesting because you may get ample movements for the shooting.

With view cameras, if you shot color, then a roll film back is quite interesting, as color sheets (slides and negatives) are way more expensive (per surface) than roll film (something painful), but you may still shot 6x12cm that nearly matches today's HD format in the monitors/TVs.


Well, in short. You will be able anyway to shot MF in the LF view camera. If you are to share lenses between cameras you probably will have to make a DIY adapter, it may look a bit challenging, but fortunately it's a simple low tech adaptation frame. I would first take the camera and later think in the adpater (remember you may shot MF in the View camera), if not you probably may not get the view camera that's good for you, which should be the priority.


To make an adapter, you simply may take a lens board of the bigger camera and to bolt on it the receptacle of the smaller camera, which can be an spare component of the front standard of the smaller camera...
 
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Alan9940

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Ian Grant said:
Many of my lenses are on Linhof/Wista lens boards so I;ve made adapter boards for my Half plate (7x5) Kodak Specialist 2 and 10x8 Agfa Ansco cameras. That gives me qite a lot of flexibility.
Click to expand...

Same here, albeit different cameras. The only odd one in the bunch is my Toho FC-45X which takes round lensboards. I could DIY an adapter, but never bothered.
 

David A. Goldfarb

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Good advice above, especially to look at the introductory pages at http://largeformatphotography.info . Generally there are no proprietary lens mounts on large format cameras (with a few exceptions for cameras with helical mounts), so you can use pretty much any lens from the entire history of photography, so long as it can physically mount on the lensboard and fit on the camera, and has a large enough image circle to cover the format adequately.

There are a few cases where you might be able to mount a lens on the lensboard, but the rear element is too large for the lensboard to mount on the camera, because of the design of the light trap on the back of the lensboard that meshes with the front standard of the camera, like on a Linhof Technika, but if you start with a normal lens for the format, this is very unlikely to be a problem.
 

MattKing

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In some cases it is also important to pay attention to the weight of a shutter and lens combination.
You wouldn't want to try to mount a huge brass lens on to a Galvin 2x3 camera, even if you could somehow attach it to the necessary lensboard.
 

Ian Grant

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Alan9940 said:
Same here, albeit different cameras. The only odd one in the bunch is my Toho FC-45X which takes round lensboards. I could DIY an adapter, but never bothered.
Click to expand...

I have a second set of lenses on Pacemaker Graphic lens boards, I've not got around to making adapters for them yet. It's frustrating there were no standards. It's only recent that the Linhof/Wista style board has become the modern standard.

It's possible to use Linhof/Wista boards on early 5x4 Speed Graphics and MPP MicroTechnicals MkIII to MkVII, I've made a wooden adapter but it needs milling from Aluminium to be really practical.

Ian
 

Dan Fromm

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MattKing said:
In some cases it is also important to pay attention to the weight of a shutter and lens combination.
Click to expand...

This is a real problem but isn't hard to solve for monorail cameras. For examples of two solutions, see http://www.galerie-photo.com/baby-bertha-6x9-en.html.

See figures 9 and 10, which show, respectively, an inexpensive lab jack used to support a Graflex SLR body hung of the back of a monorail's rear standard and a mutilated front standard used to support a monster lens hung in front of the same monorail's front standard. I've also used a bit of plexiglas the right thickness to support along and heavy tele lens attached to a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic. The bit of plastic goes between the lens' barrel and the front bed rails' crosspiece.
 
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Ian Grant

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A few years ago at the Camera Fair I go to there was a huge Big Bertha lens and SLR combination was around 1200mm, it had been used to shoot Cricket and Football by a press photographer. Because of it's size it was cheap.

But I think the point you are making Dan is "when there's a will there's a way" we vcan adapt when needed.

Ian
 

Alan9940

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Totally agree regarding lack of any standard! One camera does not, generally, meet all needs; it certainly would be nice to be able to freely move all my LF lenses between cameras. By standardizing on Linhof/Wista boards, I finally have the capability to move several lenses between two 4x5's and both my 8x10's. I looked into getting an adapter for my Arca-Swiss, but SK Grimes wants $250US for a one-piece milled aluminum adapter. Looks real nice, but that's a chunk of moola for this retiree.

It's possible to use Linhof/Wista boards on the Toho, too, but it looks strange, is not easy to position the board correctly in order to tighten the hold downs, and, based on the way it fits, I would be concerned about light leaks. Therefore, I never bothered and, instead invested in a very lightweight 4 lens setup that fits nicely with this featherweight camera.
 

TheFlyingCamera

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If you need an adapter, I had one made by Luland (Chinese company that sells their bits on Ebay) to put Sinar lensboards on the big (158x158) Toyo system (my 8x10 and my 14x17 both use the bigger Toyo boards). It was around $100.
 

Alan9940

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TheFlyingCamera said:
If you need an adapter, I had one made by Luland (Chinese company that sells their bits on Ebay) to put Sinar lensboards on the big (158x158) Toyo system (my 8x10 and my 14x17 both use the bigger Toyo boards). It was around $100.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I bought one on eBay made by a Chinese company and it didn't even come close to fitting my Arca-Swiss, though it was described as made for the 110mm front standard.
 

TheFlyingCamera

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Alan9940 said:
Yeah, I bought one on eBay made by a Chinese company and it didn't even come close to fitting my Arca-Swiss, though it was described as made for the 110mm front standard.
Click to expand...
The one I ordered was very well-made, and a perfect fit for both the Sinar and Toyo ends of the system. As always, your mileage may vary.
 

Ian Grant

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Alan9940 said:
Yeah, I bought one on eBay made by a Chinese company and it didn't even come close to fitting my Arca-Swiss, though it was described as made for the 110mm front standard.
Click to expand...

I made an adapter for an Arca Swiss just over a week ago, the owner had needed a GG screen for a 10x8 De Vere, when he came to pick it up he had no lens board, so I suggested making a De Vere lens board for his 250mm Fuji lens but also an adapter so he could also use it on his 5x4 Arca Swiss. Worked out well.

Ian
 

Alan9940

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TheFlyingCamera said:
The one I ordered was very well-made, and a perfect fit for both the Sinar and Toyo ends of the system. As always, your mileage may vary.
Click to expand...

Do you remember the eBay seller? Perhaps they make or can make one for my Arca-Swiss. Thanks!
 

ic-racer

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Get the Horseman 4x5" camera. That will fit your lenses from the 6x9cm camera. That was my second step to the slippery slope of large format....
 
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