Landscape Photography

baachitraka · Jun 1, 2011

I am little curious to know about any good method for shooting landscapes with 35mm.
Since, application of Zone System is virtually impossible with any roll-films(with some exceptions) how you guys manage shooting landscapes with roll film(35mm or MF)?

But, I am really happy shooting portraits on 35mm...

Steve Smith · Jun 1, 2011

I suggest buying or borrowing a copy of 35mm Panorama by Roger Hicks.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/35mm-Panorama-World-Landscape-Photography/dp/0715392921

Steve.

Rick A · Jun 1, 2011

For B&W film, I snap on a yellow filter and take a meter reading on the dark areas, lens choice is whatever I decide to portray. I dont always shoot horizontal for landscapes either. Panoramas and broad sweeping vistas can be boring and tiresome, I tend to look at an area of particular interest and set up for that. I try not to include much sky, unless it helps emphasize what I am depicting. This works for me in all formats.

Vincent Brady · Jun 1, 2011

As Rick says, avoid the sky when taking a reading and only take a reading from the shadow area where you want detail. Take one or two other readings from other areas to check the difference in the readings. you may have to compromise to suit the range of your film. In Ireland I'm inclined to use an orange filter but in places like Spain I found that filter too contrasty and I switched to a yellow filter. As an Olympus user you should try to get your hands on an OM4Ti it will take up to 8 spot meter readings and then give the average when you shoot.

markbarendt · Jun 1, 2011

baachitraka said:
I am little curious to know about any good method for shooting landscapes with 35mm.
Since, application of Zone System is virtually impossible with any roll-films(with some exceptions) how you guys manage shooting landscapes with roll film(35mm or MF)?

But, I am really happy shooting portraits on 35mm...

Heck, just incident meter and shoot, you will probably be pleasantly surprised. If you find you like a bit more or a bit less shadow that the meter suggests just adjust your EI a bit.

Adjusting development of the film is a fine tool but it needs to be remembered that the basic purpose of that adjustment is simply to get every scene SBR to fit on a particular paper grade. For example Adams targeted grade 2 paper as that simplified his work and improved his quality.

With Multiple-Grade paper that adjustment isn't as important.

jochen · Jun 1, 2011

Hello,
I use incident light measuring with a Lunasix F and a D-76 2-bath developer which gives good shadow detail and the bright areas keep their structure (white clouds on a blue sky are visible even without filter). My favorite lenses are 35 and 28 mm. For a good DOF you should take f/8 or f/11.

Rick A · Jun 1, 2011

It's simple, just stand in front of your camera and point the meter at the lens to take a reading. If I'm in bright sun and want to meter shadows, I put my hand up to shade the meter. By moving my hand I can control how much shadow to emulate for a decent reading.More often than not, I use the sunny 11 rule and adjust for shadows, forgoing a meter.

Jeff Kubach · Jun 1, 2011

If you can get an 24mm that would help some.

Jeff

baachitraka · Jun 1, 2011

This is a great idea, I will follow it soon.

Rick A said:
It's simple, just stand in front of your camera and point the meter at the lens to take a reading. If I'm in bright sun and want to meter shadows, I put my hand up to shade the meter. By moving my hand I can control how much shadow to emulate for a decent reading.More often than not, I use the sunny 11 rule and adjust for shadows, forgoing a meter.

markbarendt · Jun 1, 2011

As with all metering you just need to understand what you are measuring and then "season to taste".

With an incident meter if you are being lit by the same light as the subject the meter will suggest a reading that places the shadow point very close to what a spot meter and an off set of 3-stops might.

Conversely, if you are standing "in the shadows" you can apply an offset to your reading, just as you would with a spot meter.

The offset is "the seasoning", just like salting your food it is something that is very personal and only practice/experience can tell you what you like.

baachitraka · Jun 1, 2011

For example,

Incident meter measurements under bright light: F8.0 and 1/500s
then shadows might be at F8.0 and 1/60s

Did I understood it correctly?

markbarendt said:
As with all metering you just need to understand what you are measuring and then "season to taste".

With an incident meter if you are being lit by the same light as the subject the meter will suggest a reading that places the shadow point very close to what a spot meter and an off set of 3-stops might.

Conversely, if you are standing "in the shadows" you can apply an offset to your reading, just as you would with a spot meter.

The offset is "the seasoning", just like salting your food it is something that is very personal and only practice/experience can tell you what you like.

36cm2 · Jun 1, 2011

I'm confused as to why you think that application of the zone system is virtually impossible with roll film. It's not ideal, but you can certainly do it effectively with a MF camera with three backs (low, high and normal contrast) or as many 35mm cameras, or just get to your site and shoot a new roll each time you need a different contrast (this last one is less ideal, but works in a pinch). If you feel you've gotten a great shot, develop the whole roll for that particular shot. You rarely get more than a couple very promising photos per roll anyway.
Leo

baachitraka · Jun 1, 2011

Okay, it was my mistake to describe the question very vaguely. Yes, it is possible with multiple bodies or multiple backs.

My concern was with single roll and shooting landscapes.

Till today, I only got really ugly prints with single roll shooting landscapes.

36cm2 said:
I'm confused as to why you think that application of the zone system is virtually impossible with roll film. It's not ideal, but you can certainly do it effectively with a MF camera with three backs (low, high and normal contrast) or as many 35mm cameras, or just get to your site and shoot a new roll each time you need a different contrast (this last one is less ideal, but works in a pinch). If you feel you've gotten a great shot, develop the whole roll for that particular shot. You rarely get more than a couple very promising photos per roll anyway.
Leo

markbarendt · Jun 1, 2011

baachitraka said:
For example,

Incident meter measurements under bright light: F8.0 and 1/500s
then shadows might be at F8.0 and 1/60s

Did I understood it correctly?

I think so. If the incident meter read f8 @1/60 in the shadows the camera would be set to f8 @ 1/500 + or - salt.

baachitraka · Jun 1, 2011

If shots came good then, it will be beer and bratwurst. ;-)

markbarendt said:
I think so. If the incident meter read f8 @1/60 in the shadows the camera would be set to f8 @ 1/500 + or - salt.

markbarendt · Jun 1, 2011

baachitraka said:
If shots came good then, it will be beer and bratwurst. ;-)

I'd go for that.

dnjl · Jun 1, 2011

This may be a stupid suggestion, but you could of course bracket your landscape shots as much as you want, it'll still only cost a fraction of a large format negative.

baachitraka · Jun 1, 2011

If I shoot with large format I can effectively use the Zone System and control the development times. ;-)

waltereegho said:
This may be a stupid suggestion, but you could of course bracket your landscape shots as much as you want, it'll still only cost a fraction of a large format negative.

fstop · Jun 1, 2011

I use a graduated filter (Cokin) to tone down the sky brightness, this means metering through the lens but that should not be a problem.
Graduated filters I use are a neutral density,blue and sunset.

Jim Jones · Jun 1, 2011

waltereegho said:
This may be a stupid suggestion, but you could of course bracket your landscape shots as much as you want, it'll still only cost a fraction of a large format negative.

Yes, indeed. I've been shooting B&W for over 60 years, and still bracket for some 35mm landscapes. It is easier and quicker than the precise meter readings required for true Zone System photography. The extra cost of film is negligible in comparison to the other costs of most photo sessions. It is great insurance for difficult subjects. When bracketing is impractical, generous exposure and avoiding overdevelopment will let one fine tune the print with variable contrast. To a perfectionist this might sound awfully haphazard, but it is efficient.

mark · Jun 1, 2011

Couple of ways to do this and all have been mentioned. I used to use filters in place of development control. Carry red green yellow and orange with you that fit your biggest lens and step up rings for the other lenses. Beware of the over use of red.

ROL · Jun 1, 2011

baachitraka said:
Okay, it was my mistake to describe the question very vaguely. Yes, it is possible with multiple bodies or multiple backs.

My concern was with single roll and shooting landscapes.

It is possible (people do it all the time) to use an abridged form of the zone system to expose roll negative film.

Expose for the shadows.
Try to group all silmilarly lit shots together as you expose the roll - although this requires planning, it is easier than you might think since natural lighting tends to range quite consistently throughout various times of the day.
Keep notes!
Cut the film into "consistently lit" sections (half, thirds, etc.), sacrificing the between shots, in order to develop.
Develop per notes, expanding or contracting roll section development as necessary (this will likely require some study and understanding of the zs).

I think you will find much more information on this topic by searching the APUG forums.

baachitraka said:
Till today, I only got really ugly prints with single roll shooting landscapes.

There is a common misconception about landscape work that it is trivial and easy:

point camera + develop film appropriately + print photo = ansel adams.

An academic photography department head once told me that her instructors told her that she would never be a good photographer until she learned to shoot natural light landscape. Take poorly composed pix of unappealing subjects in harsh light, develop haphazardly, and print them poorly. Anyone of these will likely result in "ugly" pix.

Landscape photography requires an understanding and appreciation of natural light, combined with the rigor to apply the science of its materials (and this is where the ZS shines), and some kind of – dare I say it – artistic vision. Given an identical scene, and using good technique, the pic taken at midday will have an entirely different look and feel from that taken nearer to the golden hours.

If you want to see examples of "ugly" landscapes, printed well – see Robert Adams.
If you want to see examples of "beautiful" landscapes, printed well – see Ansel Adams.

MattKing · Jun 1, 2011

baachitraka said:
If I shoot with large format I can effectively use the Zone System and control the development times. ;-)

There is an unnecessary and misleading word in this statement - "and"

The Zone System is about adjusting scene brightness range and contrast through adjusting development times - nothing more and nothing less.

It has almost nothing to do with determining exposure per se

baachitraka · Jun 1, 2011

Yes, I must be liiiittle careful on what I write. Thank you very much indeed for pointing it out.

MattKing said:
There is an unnecessary and misleading word in this statement - "and"

The Zone System is about adjusting scene brightness range and contrast through adjusting development times - nothing more and nothing less.

It has almost nothing to do with determining exposure per se

fstop · Jun 1, 2011

MattKing said:
There is an unnecessary and misleading word in this statement - "and"

The Zone System is about adjusting scene brightness range and contrast through adjusting development times - nothing more and nothing less.

It has almost nothing to do with determining exposure per se

Study up on Ansel Adams zone system.In his system exposure and development go hand in hand.

"Expose for the shadows; develop for the highlights." Ansel Adams

Landscape Photography

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency