Landscape - film and filters (especially to deal with green and sky)

[hudson]

I'm shooting up in the country and everything is 50% green from the trees and grass and 50% sky. This makes for a difficult combination. Also, I find the green always comes out a lot darker than what I expect. I'd like to lighten the greens and darken the sky. I bought a red filter. Are there other suggestions (for both B&W and color). Two I just read about for B&W are:

- Tri-X Ortho film 4163 + No 8 yellow filter
- pan film + green or yellow green filter

 

[grahamp]

A red filter will darken greens a lot. A green or yellow-green is probably best if you need to lighten or separate greens with a moderate effect on blues.. If a plain blue sky is not showing up as at least a light grey with a normal exposure (ignoring filters) then you may be under exposing or over developing.

I live in California, so vegetation at the end of summer is usually brown (where it is not a charred black), so a yellow or yellow-green works to separate the similar colours. In the spring the green is usually better.

Generally you use a filter of the same colour to lighten (relative to other elements) and separate the tones (brightnesses). But this is not always a good thing if it will have a disproportionate effect on other colours. Then you toss in the amount of extra exposure you give for the filter which can vary the effect a little.

Sometimes the easiest way to judge the use of the filter is to look at the scene and flip the filter in front and away from your eye to see the changes in relative brightnesses. Don't hold it in front of your eye for too long, or your visual system will start to correct for the colour cast.

 

[RobC]

darkening skies with filters is a tricky thing. For starters it often just doesn't work. Depends on atmospheric conditions and actual colour of sky.
What we call blue sky is frequently a pale cyan which is a mix of blue and green and that is why the red filter has a bigger effect. But at higher altitudes with little humidity and the sky is a much darker blue and a pale yellow filter can make it go almost black.

Then you need to consider that shadow areas contain a lot of blue light from the sky and using a red filter will make those shadows go black which means you get very harsh contrast.

Yellow is best for skies without it ruining shadow areas. Yellow/green will take out some red as well as blue. Your greens will vary according to whether in shadow or direct sunlight.

Using filters requires a good deal of trial and error before gaining enough experience to be able to judge what situation requires which filter.

 

[bernard_L]

Try yellow-green fiter. IMO, your best bet. You could darken the sky further with a polarizer, but that will not be effective close to the Sun's direction or close to the opposite direction. What RobC said: "a good deal of trial and error"; try various combinations on the same view, and take notes; progressively you will learn.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

It's been awhile now but, in my experience with panchromatic film, even a deep green filter has minimal effect on green foliage though it can deepen blue sky quite noticeably. IMO, you're better off trying a film with extended red sensitivity and using a red filter to make subtle use of Wood effect. Maybe try some Rollei Retro 80s with a medium red or orange filter? I imagine a deep yellow filter wood render a subtler effect but I'm only guessing.

 

[twoeyeandy]

How about a graduated ND filter for the sky coupled with a green/ yellow filter for the greens? Might work with black and white.

 

[Ian Grant]

While I carry a few different filters the only one I tend to use is Green. I use the Cokin P series filters and their green filter is qute string and very effective.

Ian

 

[Xmas]

It depends on the

Cloud
Sky
Vegetation
...

But I carry three yellow filters very light, medium, and darker and take four shots, one without.

There is always the option of a Polaroid as well...

 

[Maris]

I use a grad red to lower sky tone while giving full exposure to a green foreground. And if I want a bright foreground of vegetation topped by a black sky with brilliant clouds there is always infrared film.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I'm shooting up in the country and everything is 50% green from the trees and grass and 50% sky. This makes for a difficult combination. Also, I find the green always comes out a lot darker than what I expect. I'd like to lighten the greens and darken the sky. I bought a red filter. Are there other suggestions (for both B&W and color). Two I just read about for B&W are:

- Tri-X Ortho film 4163 + No 8 yellow filter
- pan film + green or yellow green filter

I'd also recommend a yellow-green or a yellow;red is unlikely to work because foliage reflects a lot of UV,making it too dark.

 

[Sirius Glass]

A red filter will darken greens a lot. A green or yellow-green is probably best if you need to lighten or separate greens with a moderate effect on blues.. If a plain blue sky is not showing up as at least a light grey with a normal exposure (ignoring filters) then you may be under exposing or over developing.

I live in California, so vegetation at the end of summer is usually brown (where it is not a charred black), so a yellow or yellow-green works to separate the similar colours. In the spring the green is usually better.

Generally you use a filter of the same colour to lighten (relative to other elements) and separate the tones (brightnesses). But this is not always a good thing if it will have a disproportionate effect on other colours. Then you toss in the amount of extra exposure you give for the filter which can vary the effect a little.

Sometimes the easiest way to judge the use of the filter is to look at the scene and flip the filter in front and away from your eye to see the changes in relative brightnesses. Don't hold it in front of your eye for too long, or your visual system will start to correct for the colour cast.

Try yellow-green fiter. IMO, your best bet. You could darken the sky further with a polarizer, but that will not be effective close to the Sun's direction or close to the opposite direction. What RobC said: "a good deal of trial and error"; try various combinations on the same view, and take notes; progressively you will learn.

Yellow green filters will darken the sky somewhat and lighten the greenery.

 

[hudson]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Wow, I had no idea! This is an interesting discussion...it never crossed my mind that the sky would be composed of many different colors and the reflection from the sky into the shadows would also have to be reckoned with.

I can see the red filter won't be good for the green vegetation. I initially bought it only thinking of darkening the clouds. Yellow, green and yellow-green sounds like a good place to start. The graduated red is also an interesting idea.

Lots of things to think about!

 

[RobC]

Yellow green filters will darken the sky somewhat and lighten the greenery.

you need to be careful with explanation.Just putting a green filter on doesn't make green lighter. It is a combination of applying exposure factor which keeps green same as it was before and the darkening of the filtered out colours which makes the contrast of green relatively lighter than what is was before. A subtle difference which appears to make green lighter but is actually making other colours darker. Hence care needs to be taken with regard to shadows. Adjusting filter factor(increasing or decreasing exposure) to get what you want is tricky and may make green lighter too but with the increased contrast between darkened colours.

Just remember that filters do just that, they filter out colours. They don't add in colours or brightness.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Yellow green filters will darken the sky somewhat and lighten the greenery.

you need to be careful with explanation.Just putting a green filter on doesn't make green lighter. It is a combination of applying exposure factor which keeps green same as it was before and the darkening of the filtered out colours which makes the contrast of green relatively lighter than what is was before. A subtle difference which appears to make green lighter but is actually making other colours darker. Hence care needs to be taken with regard to shadows. Adjusting filter factor(increasing or decreasing exposure) to get what you want is tricky and may make green lighter too but with the increased contrast between darkened colours.

Just remember that filters do just that, they filter out colours. They don't add in colours or brightness.

I tend to post shorter answers because I noticed that if I carefully lay out the complete discussion, the the posting seems to be skipped over.