Land Rover defender

[mikebarger]

George I know what you mean about the space. We remove the back seat and still have the back piled high when we spend two weeks in the Carolina's every other year. We'll spend a week at the beach, then the second week at the mountains (around Brevard).

But, you get good at packing.

Mike

 

[roteague]

Ford and Dodge and now Chevy

In Australia I have heard you can get the cummins dodge diesel in the jeep

In Australia, you can also get Toyota and Nissan (the Patrol is excellent, BTW) 4WD with diesel engines.

 

[George Papantoniou]

FWIW,

after many years of off roading in desert areas in high heat, going through several jeeps-good vehicles- I have switched to diesel 4wd engine, I can leave it running all day with the air on full blast....(In over 100 degree heat) it doesnt heat up and is the most awesome workhorse I have had climbing or pulling incredibly heavy loads....the milage is equal to or greater then the 6 and eight cylinder gas engines I used for so many years and on long hauls is quite good....i can manually lock my hubs or switch on the fly etc....so far I am happy with it....

Diesel is definitely the right engine for an off-road vehicle. It runs without the need of electricity (no sparkplugs and their cables getting wet), it has lots of torque and (most important) can give its torque on low rev's (unlike gasoline engines). Diesel is also safer to carry in portable tanks for refuelling on long rides (where there are no gas stations). The only problem is low temperatures, when it tends to freeze. You have to think about anti-freeze additives beforehand.

 

[George Papantoniou]

George asked; "Can you elaborate on the "fiddle brakes" subject ? I have no idea what you're talking about..."

Fiddle brakes are individual hand brakes for the rear wheels. Trials cars usually have them I think. They can be used to help when turning, for control going down hills and to slow down or stop a wheel that has lost traction. It's an alternative to the brute force approach. An eccentric climbing friend of mine fitted them to his Escort van. I'm not really into off-roading, by the way, at least not with the assistance of an infernal combustion engine. I just used to live with someone who was into it, and shared the kitchen with parts from four or five Land Rovers.

Best,
Helen

Interesting. Someone has to be a real good off-road driver in order to operate them, I guess...
I agree with you, off-road driving cannot be compared with trekking, but it gets you there faster. I prefer going as far as I can with my car (not very far, yet) and then walk the rest of the way up...

 

[George Papantoniou]

Well this is where i was at several years ago with the family and my Sequoia. Now that the kids have grown up and have their own cars, i an able to dedicate the Sequoia to photography. So air lockers front and back, hydraulic shocks front and back, winch, brush guard all around, skid plates under entire bottom of vehicle, air bags in rear springs, lift kit, bigger very aggressive tires, new exhaust system, new front bumper.

That ought to get me where i want to go!!


Pete

Wow, Peter, it seems that you have really decided to get mean... This model is completely unkonown to me (and the European market, I guess) but it seems huge. And all those accessories... It must now weigh 3 tons... I have to say that I once tried to handle a 2-ton Land Cruiser with 4 passengers and luggage on mud, and it was no fun at all... Of course, the tyres didn't help (not mud tires) and there were no front or rear diff locks available. No electronic traction control either...

 

[raucousimages]

Just got back from a photo trip to the Murdock basin, Ashley National Forest, in northern Utah with my wife and three children. We shoot large format so with the cameras, tripods, camping gear etc... This year I went from a Jeep (did not sell the Jeep it is great for my solo trips or when I take one child. I did sell the motorhome. It could not go into the places I want to go, so what good was it.) to a Dodge crew cab long bed with shell, lift kit, oversize tires (not tall but wide for sand) with a Cummins diesel. The Murdok Basin in not a FWD road but is a very bad road with a lot of ruts, mud and rocks. With the diesel at idle I was able to easily crawl along the road without tearing anything apart. An Isuzu Rodeo passing me tore it's muffler off in a dip because he was going to fast. Now I just need a platform on top like Ansel Adams had on his old Cady station wagon.
Dead Link Removed

A muddy truck is a happy truck.

 

[PeterDendrinos]

Wow, Peter, it seems that you have really decided to get mean... This model is completely unkonown to me (and the European market, I guess) but it seems huge. And all those accessories... It must now weigh 3 tons... I have to say that I once tried to handle a 2-ton Land Cruiser with 4 passengers and luggage on mud, and it was no fun at all... Of course, the tyres didn't help (not mud tires) and there were no front or rear diff locks available. No electronic traction control either...

It does happen to weigh about 3 tons, and is not unlike the landcruser 100 i guess. It has a gas v8 4.7L and with the modifications has a ground clearance of about 14 inches (35.5cm).

The deal was that i could sell it and try to find a smaller vehicle as competent, or simply modify this one and basically run it until the weels fall off. So for the first time in my life i have a real "red neck" looking car that is as much toy as car.

I might add that my wife thinks i've gone off the deep end. And my boys are embarrassed to be seen with me and it. Call it a mid life crisis.

Pete

 

[roteague]

Wow, Peter, it seems that you have really decided to get mean... This model is completely unkonown to me (and the European market, I guess) but it seems huge. And all those accessories... It must now weigh 3 tons... I have to say that I once tried to handle a 2-ton Land Cruiser with 4 passengers and luggage on mud, and it was no fun at all... Of course, the tyres didn't help (not mud tires) and there were no front or rear diff locks available. No electronic traction control either...

George,

They are not even in the same league. The Land Cruiser is a serious off-road machine, the Sequoia doesn't have the approach or departure angle to be a serious off road machine - it is designed for highway use. The 4.7L engine has serious piston slap problems - Toyota should have brought their excellent diesel engines from Australia (but diesels don't sell well here).

 

[Dave Wooten]

Most SUV's never get off the highway....they take the kids to soccer practice...for quite a few years it has been "not cool" to own a station wagon...usually a less costly and more efficient to pack the kids around etc. Also most SUV do not (as mentioned) have enough ground clearance for even mildly rutted non paved country roads or even a good dose of mud..Las Vegas Rover dealership probably sells more of these Rovers than any dealer in the world for the size of our town (as does the new Ferrari dealer (60 in 2 months) ) although they sponsor a "club" to rough it a bit..you never see one with a speck of dirt....it is a good ride when you are on a rough road...to get serious you need some modifications...or just get a Rubicon and hit the trail.....for me a diesel truck provides the most power and reliable security.....

In the U.S. of course soccer mom's would nt stand for a diesel engine....they are so happy driving their status SUV's on dry pavement with their all wheel all time drive...The Rover is quite popular with some of the local Real Estate agents but the Cadillac Escalade far surpasses it in popularity...

 

[PeterDendrinos]

George,

They are not even in the same league. The Land Cruiser is a serious off-road machine, the Sequoia doesn't have the approach or departure angle to be a serious off road machine - it is designed for highway use. The 4.7L engine has serious piston slap problems - Toyota should have brought their excellent diesel engines from Australia (but diesels don't sell well here).

the approach angle/departure angle for the two are approximately 31/24 and 28/20 for the landcruser and sequoia respectively, compared to the jeep rubicon at 45/35. so you see there are rather similar.

I'll admit the motor has a bit of piston noise, but preforms just fine, and has never caused a problem. If i had my choice i would have a Diesel, but i'm stuck with what i have.

It will work just fine for the purpose i intend it for.

I must say however that given the option of buying a jeep or a toyota equivalent i would take the toyota hands down. There is no comparison between the two. Toyota has been building off road vehicles that have stood up to the worlds toughest terrain for a very long time, and they simply engineer a better car.

Pete

 

[Helen B]

In the less developed countries, what many line car drivers can do with an ancient Toyota Hi-Lux while carrying up to 27 passengers and their luggage would put most SUV drivers to shame.

 

[Dave Wooten]

Helen, that is so true....

 

[Bob F.]

In the less developed countries, what many line car drivers can do with an ancient Toyota Hi-Lux while carrying up to 27 passengers and their luggage would put most SUV drivers to shame.

A BBC car program on the TV (Top Gear) tried to destroy one. Failed. Tried crashing it in to a tree, submerging it in the sea, dropping a caravan on it etc etc etc... see: http://www.brakedisc.net/features/tghilux/index.php

Bob.

 

[PeterDendrinos]

A BBC car program on the TV (Top Gear) tried to destroy one. Failed. Tried crashing it in to a tree, submerging it in the sea, dropping a caravan on it etc etc etc... see: http://www.brakedisc.net/features/tghilux/index.php

Bob.

Yup, try that with a jeep! I would liked to have seen that show, but the web site gives a good idea.

Pete

 

[Dave Wooten]

Cant let the better half see that BBC feature.....she alreads wants to trade her Cherokee for a Toyota 4wd TRD!

 

[Bob F.]

Yup, try that with a jeep! I would liked to have seen that show, but the web site gives a good idea.

Pete

You can stream it from here:http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/prog28/toyota.shtml - bottom left of the screen.

Bob.

 

[PeterDendrinos]

You can stream it from here:http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/prog28/toyota.shtml - bottom left of the screen.

Bob.

oh how cool!

 

[George Papantoniou]

In the less developed countries, what many line car drivers can do with an ancient Toyota Hi-Lux while carrying up to 27 passengers and their luggage would put most SUV drivers to shame.

If you go around in Greece, you'll see many agriculurers still using Toyotas and Mazdas (pickup vans) made in the 70's. These vehicles have spent 30 years carrying loads on dirt tracks and in fields of mud. I've heard that the Volkswagen Taro diesel 4wd used to be quite able in off-road situations (I think it had the differential lock ability in both axles), so I am sometimes thinking of looking for one. Lots of loading space, only 2 seats, though.

 

[Aggie]

In Venezuela that (the Toyota) took us from the river bank to the main residence of a Hato (plantation) in the rain forest. We arrived in dry weather with 12 people crammed in the back with the luggage. The roads made some of the places I use to bo 4 bying look tame. When we left it had started to pour. I don't mean just rain, I mean torrential down pour. The 25 mile drive back to the boat landing was an experience. I was up front with the driver, and silently prayed everytime he would pause, cross himself them floor the vehicle to cross some small swampy area. Of course the crocodiles may have had a small part to do with that. It was an adventure I would repeat in a second. Of course there is no way I could ever drag my hubby out to something like that trip. His idea of roughing it is my new Honda element and motel 6.