Unless you do a quick edit, people can read what you actually said.No, my point was about them being good lenses for photography as such
I agree, but why pay top dollar for a new lens if you own something as good?and it being a mistake to judge then on an electronic sensor.
In my experience it is. This is partly because it's an analogue to analogue medium. If you're scanning film you are almost certainly getting less data from the negative than a manual lens on a digital body. Data may not be important to you, and there's no reason why it should be. Some of my favourite lenses are objectively lousy but subjectively wonderful. On film and digital cameras.Your ennitial comment implied that film was somehow more tolerant of these lenses
Not inferior, different. Some of the differences are technical.because it is supposedly an inferior sensor
That's meaningless. Size for size? Chromes? Colour negative? Fast, slow, brands? How do you intend extracting the data? What equivalence are you using?film is in fact the higher resolution sensor.
Mostly true..The lenses designed for film are not as tele centric
...unless you're using them on a digital body.and doesn't need to be
Which? Taylor Hobson? Wollensak? A Canon EF prime from the c21st?The vintage lenses are in fact very good overall
You'll have to indicate where I went wrong. Then you'll have to say which non-Bayer sensor you use.It's just that testing of the differences haven't been very systematic and rigorous.
Unless you do a quick edit, people can read what you actually said.
I agree, but why pay top dollar for a new lens if you own something as good?
In my experience it is. This is partly because it's an analogue to analogue medium. If you're scanning film you are almost certainly getting less data from the negative than a manual lens on a digital body.
Not inferior, different. Some of the differences are technical.
That's meaningless. Size for size? Chromes? Colour negative? Fast, slow, brands? How do you intend extracting the data? What equivalence are you using?
Mostly true..
...unless you're using them on a digital body.
Which? Taylor Hobson? Wollensak? A Canon EF prime from the c21st?
You'll have to indicate where I went wrong. Then you'll have to say which non-Bayer sensor you use.
This is an analogue forum, and we've taken up too much space talking about digital cameras already. I made a point in passing and in context, and I stick by my subsequent points because they are empirical - from observation. You are entitled to disagree, politely if you want a response in kind. I don't care enough about film-digital camera comparisons to labour a point I took great effort to satisfy myself on. If you're getting what you require from a lens on either technology, that is literally all that matters. I'm done on the subject.Please point out my inconsistency?
Have I been anything but polite?This is an analogue forum, and we've taken up too much space talking about digital cameras already. I made a point in passing and in context, and I stick by my subsequent points because they are empirical - from observation. You are entitled to disagree, politely if you want a response in kind. I don't care enough about film-digital camera comparisons to labour a point I took great effort to satisfy myself on. If you're getting what you require from a lens on either technology, that is literally all that matters. I'm done on the subject.
Wonder if they still service the F5?
What's the harm in what Negative Supply and Leica are doing? These are non-essential products catering to a very niche audience, and neither firms are seeking to monopolize the market. In fact, you have quite a few alternatives available to you at a wide range of prices. If you want to see a real racket, just look at the USA market for nutritional supplements.
With Leica they've positioned themselves as a luxury good, the problem is their stuff doesn't really live up to expectations... The M10 ...costs double what you might pay for a professional Canon or Nikon. Then you have their terrible after sales service and recent record of completely botched products. The M8 requires IR filters and they didn't know at launch, the 18mp CCD destroys itself all on it's own, even the replacements. ... The thing that's always irritated me about Leica really though is that they could maintain their high priced status by offering an M for $1000 to $1500 dollars more than what a D810/5DIV costs. Instead they just go the extra mile making it completely unaffordable to most users. Just a stick in the eye from the photographic 1%.
Gosh NEP, if you wanted out-of-the-box perfection, you should've bought Japanese like everyone else [lol]. Okay I'm being a bit facetious: As a longtime Leica owner, I'm familiar with issues with the M-system and sport optics, at least up to 2012, and my advice to someone wanting to buy a digital M system today would be to skip any of the camera bodies incorporating CCD sensors and not to expect perfection, even if you just bought a special edition costing 50K USD. You will still need to mind your manners when calling for assistance and repairs shall take as long as they take. You may reasonably expect that they will live up to the terms of the warranty, but the last time I checked, this did not include overnight shipment of replacement camera bodies, even if you are a Very Important Person or otherwise "entitled". Spares or replacements for items specific to special editions are not available, and odds of encountering at least minor issues such as slight vertical misalignment of the rangefinder are fairly high, but most will not impact your ability to take the camera out into the world and take good photos. If someone goes above and beyond to deliver something extra, be grateful. Leica products can be beta-quality and that's just life.
I have to agree with NortheastPhotographic on the Leica issues. I have owned several Leica cameras over the years including a few of their digital offerings.
I still own the MA and use it all the time. But I know that just getting it serviced when that time comes will cost a lot more than most cameras even cost.
However, the lenses are astounding, even some of those that aren't made by Leica itself.
There was a time before lab owning that I would have LOVED to own an M10. I had an M4 and a 35/2 Biogon and made some lovely images with it (https://sperryphoto.com/an-american-mill). More recently when I wanted a mechanical type 35mm camera I did consider getting back into RFs. The cost of lenses though is just a little tough to swallow. I picked up an LX and the 31, 43, & 77mm FA lenses for basically the cost of a single decent Voigtlander lens.
I think still film will be around for quite a long time, if manufacturers like Ilford, Foma and Adox can keep on going. IIRC a big threat is aging of employees, machinery, their knowhow and specific supplies.Sports photography will be via frame extraction from 120 frame/sec 8k or higher resolution drone video, by then, as will most photojournalism.
Our age (25) and more. I'd say these people with the "hyped" cameras are much more visible because they are as well the ones shown in social media. I'm in a photo club where no one has any of the gear listed, at most Hasselblads but I am in their country of origin. Do not subestimate the middle aged demographic that gets into or returns to film.They certainly seem to have access to equipment most of us could only dream of at their age. Perhaps we only see the youngsters who own a couple of double stroke M3s, a Mamiya 7 and Contax point and shoots, whereas lower profile but equally talented young people are shooting cheaper gear.
I've assembled a little m43 kit on a very good budget, all used and some screaming lucky deals. At the end of the day it's about tools, better to have any camera than some Leica that one can't afford. I find an issue with film Leica M's in that they are 35mm and not Medium format...Though I enjoyed them when I had them, I'm in no great rush to get back into Leica sport optics or M-cameras. Today I think M43 is the underappreciated digital standard.
Great photos Mark! First thought was to wonder whether the textile mill could produce selvedge blue denim which seems to be a fetish item these days, probably worth a mint in the right market. Did you use Kodak Ektar 100 and a tripod?
Though I enjoyed them when I had them, I'm in no great rush to get back into Leica sport optics or M-cameras. Today I think M43 is the underappreciated digital standard.
Thanks! I actually just showed up with some consumer flims and no tripod. I really didn't know what I was walking into but when we saw the mill I was floored. Such a cool space! Had to make every frame count and luckily it all went well. Had I known I would have used a medium format camera and a tripod for sure!
Thanks! I actually just showed up with some consumer flims and no tripod. I really didn't know what I was walking into but when we saw the mill I was floored. Such a cool space! Had to make every frame count and luckily it all went well. Had I known I would have used a medium format camera and a tripod for sure!
What a fascinating place! Well done. A 21mm lens (on 35mm format) would have been handy for the tight interior spaces.Thanks! I actually just showed up with some consumer flims and no tripod. I really didn't know what I was walking into but when we saw the mill I was floored. Such a cool space! Had to make every frame count and luckily it all went well. Had I known I would have used a medium format camera and a tripod for sure!
There was a time before lab owning that I would have LOVED to own an M10. I had an M4 and a 35/2 Biogon and made some lovely images with it (https://sperryphoto.com/an-american-mill). More recently when I wanted a mechanical type 35mm camera I did consider getting back into RFs. The cost of lenses though is just a little tough to swallow. I picked up an LX and the 31, 43, & 77mm FA lenses for basically the cost of a single decent Voigtlander lens.
In my opinion, which may not be popular, Leitz began the transition to a maker of luxury goods rather than professional tools when they brought out their first SLR. and has been headed down that road ever since.
...
Leica became the Montblanc of cameras then, and has been so ever since. ... too expensive for all but the most status conscious and affluent amateurs.
It's fun to think what might have been, but even if E. Leitz had fully appreciated the threat posed by the Japanese SLR (and for all I know, maybe they did) did they have the resources necessary to produce a Nikon F class SLR in the late 1950s, or for that matter, an Asahiflex? And did they ever stand a chance of competing on price with Japanese goods in the USA in an era when the exchange rate between the US$ and Japanese Yen was fixed until the early 1970s?
From what I've read on the subject, Leitz thought that the SLR could never be made rugged enough for pros ... One article said that Leitz engineers did not get a look at their first Nikon F for evaluation in the flesh until almost 1963! I don't know whether that's true, but they certainly seem to have taken the competitive threat very casually.
Perhaps the truth is that Leitz did not wish to cannibalize their own market by introducing an M-alternative: Is it so hard to imagine when we have recent examples of Nikon and Canon hanging onto the F- and EF-mounts way too long? And in a sense, Leica did have an SLR: Visoflex! It must have all seemed very sensible at the time, sensible enough that there were at least three iterations of Visoflex.
Regarding Volkswagon, probably a very different kettle of fish there: Believe they were relatively affordable in the USA and certainly had a reputation for being well made and dependable. My folks bought one in the 1960s as they were not keen on the American offerings of the era. No real Japanese competition at the time, and I think neither Mini or Citroen's 2CV would have charmed them, because they liked little amenities like glass side windows which could be raised or lowered with a crank!
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