There is only one person to answer that question: yourself.
Read GPO's statement and decide if you would agree with it or not.
sorry, but this is exactly what makes this discussion so ridiculous.Right!
Gursky isn't a photographer...
There is only one person to answer that question: yourself.
Read GPO's statement and decide if you would agree with it or not.
sorry, but this is exactly what makes this discussion so ridiculous.
Ask the guy who bought his photograph for over $3 million if he thinks it is genuine or not.
Jason, give me a liitle bit of time to answer... my english is coming to the limit with your post. It would be much easier to answer in german...
Best,
Nick
All right Jason, just to please you, let's check it:I take my 8x10 (as I'm wont to do on occasion) and I make a black and white negative. I use a red filter, making the sky dark, when in fact it is in "reality" (my persoal visual reality in the spectrum I see in) much lighter. I develop the negative for expansion, rendering an altered and somewhat greater apparent tonal range than was discernible, or would be readily discernible in a true to life snapshot with whatever. I contact print the negative, pulling a dodge all the way across to even the density from what really went on the neg, and selenium tone the print long enough make the blacks black. Hand made from beginning to end, using 50 to 80 year old equipment made mostly of wood and leather, no batteries, no enlarger, even the timer is a metronome, using one of the oldest and most traditional of workflows. The photograph bear only a passing resemblance to the reality.
Does my photograph qualify as "real" ?
What about wetplate, that sees only blue-green?
What about this toned cyanotype I painted with light in a pitch black room? Certainly not "reality" not even close. Does it qualify as genuine photograph?
I'm genuinely curious because I really want to be a photographer.
All right Jason, just to please you, let's check it:
>>The photograph shows within its used crop all distinguishable objects of the subject which were part of it in the moment of tripping the shutter<<
passed
>>There are no objects removed, added, changed in their relative position or altered in their proportions<<
passed
>>The textures of the subject elements were not altered<<
passed
>>As far as color pictures are concerned the colors of all parts of the subject were not basically altered. “Basically” here means that an object which is blue is not made red. It is not meant that there is an identity with colors of the recorded real world object<<
passed
So you my use the label
But you and all others missed the crucial point. You may call your picture whatever you like, including "genuine photograph" anyway. Just don't use the label if you have, let's say photoshopped in a little red devil in the lower left corner.
The label serves to let beholders of our pictures know, what we have *not* done to our pictures. In *not* doing these particular things to *our* pictures they obviously preserve the (not exclusive) property of being genuine. The label just tells: "Hey, we have avoided particular things in editing our pictures. And you may have to expect that pictures not carrying *our* label may have not. " So it is *not* about what other pictures are but about what *we* consider *our* pictures to be.
Ulrich
The artifact at hand was shot with a Canon D1s. The image was dodged and burned in PS, inverted, manipulated to match the curve of my emulsion, and printed as a physical negative with an inkjet printer. The negative was then physically distressed. At that point an emulsion was hand brushed onto paper, and the negative contact printed onto the paper in an arc burner, and chemically developed and toned. It is a one of a kind, and can never be precisely duplicated. The physical artifact was absolutely created using "chemical rays of light". What is it now? Most certainly it is still a toned cyanotype on Arches Platine, but is it genuine? I'm not arguing that it is or is not. I would point out that it is not something easily made by a "non-genuine" photographer, and requires a truly photographic skill set not in the arsenal of the average street or journalist photographer (not to disparage those disciplines) whose photographs might rise to the "genuine" standard. By definition it seems to make my mom's (processed by Walmart) snapshot of my son with his birthday cake "real" and my toned cyanotype on Arches that took hours of darkroom work "fake".
Edward, according to our statement your image (the photographed one) of course would be a Genuine Photograph (why not?). We do not make implicit assumptions. But most of you are.What if I create a photo-realistic image in Photoshop, and then photograph it. Is that a genuine photograph, or do you also make the implicit assumption that any photograph has to be of a "genuine subject"?
I doubt the problem is people not reading your statement.
You just can't invent and promote a label, and then say it is not invented to distinguish some sort of something from another sort of something.
So yes, you are indeed judging.
By calling your own photographs "genuine" you are at least implying that other photographs are not.
That, or your statement above should read that all photographs are "genuine". Then we don't need such an empty label.
So if you really believe that some photographs are not "genuine" photographs, you just have to explain why. You must be able to answer, for instance, J. Brunner's questions and explain why his examples are not "genuine".
You can't shrug that off, saying things of the nature of "to each his own", or "we're just saying".
Rather now, i hope.
Again, that "difference" thing, right? "Special" even.
But I noticed one thing: Many of you make the assumption (against our explicit assertion) that we are judging whether a photograph is genuine or not. Please note the difference: We are in fact judging whether an image maybe called Genuine Photograph in the context of our website or not. Not more, not less.
Saying "bacon flavored photography", by the way, would also work for us. As I mentioned before (several times, I think), this rather works as an eyecatcher.
Sorry for my probably badly chosen words. But if your are insisting to split hairs (do you say so in English?), go ahead. But I´d rather prefer to answer in German then. This would equalize our positions, I think
Regarding your other thoughts, see my above post.
Greetings,
Jan
The label you have to design yourself.
iirc (with my very little knowledge of art history) the f64 manifesto was written / the movement founded to promote straight photography against the hegemony of pictoralism in art photography. straight photography was not considered art before that.Again, if the motive of Ulrich et al is/were more along the lines of f/64 then I'd understand that motive.
If "f64" or the "Straight Photographers" were just marketing gimmicks... than you are right, Mark.
But the try to create credibility is better than not even to care about it.
Nick
iirc (with my very little knowledge of art history) the f64 manifesto was written / the movement founded to promote straight photography against the hegemony of pictoralism in art photography. straight photography was not considered art before that.
since then it has long been established as a form of art. if something had to be done today, it would be the time to establish photo manipulation as a form of art against the dominance of straight photography.
Yup, but I still don't see why this is any better than simply signing it, as I mentioned previouslyA signature is what signifies authenticity of the photograph, it says that the photograph is as genuine as the person who made it. What can be more genuine than that!/QUOTE]
I think that's about the only right answer. After all, it's only my signature on a cheque or a credit card slip or letter that is taken as the token of my authenticity - so why not on a photograph? And if the print has contact details on the back or mount and the viewer is interested in the process used rather more than the image, then I can explain personally if contacted. I've covered my corner and I don't have to worry about all the other "non-genuine" prints out there. Let the viewer decide. There's no way in the world you can set up a sustainable monitoring and control system that will be adhered to, no matter how emotionally satisfying it might be to the true believers.
It really is more about the image quality and the art involved than it is about how it was produced. We don't criticise the "Old Masters" because they reworked a painting that didn't satisfy them at first - and is probably now regarded as a masterpiece - so why do we worry so much about photographs? Just be true to yourself. Let others worry about what they do or don't do.
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