Lab processed film has water spots - advice on rewashing at home

The last couple of times I've had my 35mm film processed at a lab the negatives have come back with some water spots near the edges but visible in the image area. I know, I know, I should be processing my own film at home, and I plan to start doing this - real soon now

I spoke to the lab and they said that they sometimes see this with 35mm film as water will get trapped by the sprocket holes and will drain out and leave spots during the drying process. The 120 film I've had processed at this same lab has never had water spots so I assume the lab's explanation is reasonable (they did say the dip and dunk processors they use do tap the rack against the walls of the processor in order to dislodge trapped water, but I guess this is not completely effective).

So, I want to attempt to rewash the film myself. Unfortunately, I've already cut and sleeved the negatives and didn't notice the spots until I scanned the film (the spots can be seen on the negatives themselves and are not an artifact of the scanning process, if anyone is wondering). The lab did send me a bottle of Photoflo to use during washing which I thought was a nice gesture (I think I already have a bottle from when I bought everything I needed to start home development but then never actually did, but anyway... ).

I have steel reels and tanks, so should I just try and put the small strip of cut film on a reel and use the Ilford wash method? I wasn't sure how well a small strip of 6 frames would stay attached to the reel during the washing process, but figured a strip of film floating loose in the tank wasn't the best idea either. Would continuous running water be more effective at removing the spots? Is there an alternative method that might work better?

Try soaking the strips in a pan of distilled water. Use pickups or tongs to hold the film by the edges - a hemostat also works well. After several passes through the water, lay the films on the edge and let them dry. If you still have drying marks after that, add a drop of photoflo to the water and try again.

I have also had some success with just using a moist Q-tip to wipe away the drying marks.

These techniques have worked well for me with B&W. Color film is a little more complicated and I will leave that to someone else.

There are many long contentious threads about drying marks on Photrio with contradictory recommendations about avoiding drying marks.

What Wallendo said should work just fine. You can re wet the negs as much as needed, just avoid scratching them by using a microcloth. I'm using a Photoflo clone called Arista Flo Wetting Agent, and it has caused me lots of problems w/ drying marks. I used Kodak's PhotoFlo for decades before this. and never had one drying mark on any of my films.

Once you start developing at home, one trick I learned is to whip the film like a, well, whip after you take it out of the developing reels. This will throw off lots of excess water and the negs will always dry w/o drying marks if you use PhotoFlo.

Mix up a liter of photoflo according to the mfgr’s directions. Pour it into an appropriately sized glass baking dish or large glass beaker or wide mouth jar and simply dip the negative strips, one at a time in the photoflo solution for 30 seconds. Dip one hand in the photoflo solution and gently give the negative strip the finger squeegee. Hang to dry….walk away and do not look at them for at least an hour.
Not really a big deal.

Wallendo said:

Try soaking the strips in a pan of distilled water. Use pickups or tongs to hold the film by the edges - a hemostat also works well. After several passes through the water, lay the films on the edge and let them dry. If you still have drying marks after that, add a drop of photoflo to the water and try again.

I have also had some success with just using a moist Q-tip to wipe away the drying marks.

These techniques have worked well for me with B&W. Color film is a little more complicated and I will leave that to someone else.

There are many long contentious threads about drying marks on Photrio with contradictory recommendations about avoiding drying marks.

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BradS said:

Mix up a liter of photoflo according to the mfgr’s directions. Pour it into an appropriately sized glass baking dish or large glass beaker or wide mouth jar and simply dip the negative strips, one at a time in the photoflo solution for 30 seconds. Dip one hand in the photoflo solution and gently give the negative strip the finger squeegee. Hang to dry….walk away and do not look at them for at least an hour.
Not really a big deal.

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Either of these will solve your problem for this time. Consider finding another lab.

A print tray, or something similar if you don't have one, will be easier than loading short strips on reels. Then proceed as Wallendo has outlined.
Getting Photo-flo (or other wetting agents) right can be challenging, spots can result from too little (or none), and from too much. Less is usually more in my experience, meaning use the smallest possible amount of concentrate that gets you a good result. But, mileage varies.
Note that the recommended dilution is 1 part photoflo to 200 parts water, a little goes a very long way.

Sirius Glass said:

Consider finding another lab.

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They're supposed to be one of the best labs in the country. They're in your neck of the woods.

Thanks all for the suggestions! I'll give it a try.

logan2z said:

They're supposed to be one of the best labs in the country. They're in your neck of the woods.

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Aw shucks, if they are near me, they must be good.

logan2z said:

they sometimes see this with 35mm film as water will get trapped by the sprocket holes and will drain out and leave spots during the drying process.

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logan2z said:

(they did say the dip and dunk processors they use do tap the rack against the walls of the processor in order to dislodge trapped water, but I guess this is not completely effective).

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WOW ! ! !
If I heard that from the lab then it would be the last time I would use them.

All 35mm films sprocket holes can hold water and no matter what processor is used, the dryer should do its job and dry the film, sprocket holes, and all.
Sounds to me that the dryer temperature is not set correctly and/or the airflow may be restricted (air filter not cleaned).

As to tapping the film processing racks, well what can I say......................... It is not something I would boast about.
Tapping racks with wet film can cause splashes to occur on the film emulsion and so give cause uneven drying. IMO it causes more problems than it cures.

With that type of carrying on, they may not be one of the best labs in the country any longer.

foc said:

WOW ! ! !
If I heard that from the lab then it would be the last time I would use them.

All 35mm films sprocket holes can hold water and no matter what processor is used, the dryer should do its job and dry the film, sprocket holes, and all.
Sounds to me that the dryer temperature is not set correctly and/or the airflow may be restricted (air filter not cleaned).

As to tapping the film processing racks, well what can I say......................... It is not something I would boast about.
Tapping racks with wet film can cause splashes to occur on the film emulsion and so give cause uneven drying. IMO it causes more problems than it cures.

With that type of carrying on, they may not be one of the best labs in the country any longer.

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Maybe I'm being overly tolerant, but I guess mistakes do happen. And it's not the first lab I've used that delivered film with some water spots. Not that I'm happy about it, and I probably will try somewhere else next time - or actually make good on my promise to myself to start developing at home.

I have seen water marks on the base (shinny) side of a film and it was usually caused by incorrect final rinse. These marks can be very easily removed with a simple, gentle rub with a dry cloth/micro fiber cloth.
If you are getting drying marks on the emulsion side, then follow the instructions given in the other posts above. Emulsion drying marks are usually caused by uneven drying. For example, a blob of water is on the surface of the wet emulsion. (the film rack tapping ! !)The wet emulsion dries quicker than the blob. The blob dries last and leaves the water mark.

All you need to do is resoak the film in warm water with a drop of wetting agent, it may need a gentle rub (don't worry negatives are hardy). I found the best way to dry a 35mm negative strip like this was to put a paper clip through the last sprocket hole at either end and then attach your clips/peg to the paper clips.
Let us know how you get on, please.

The fastest best way I've found over the years for black and white 35mm is to take a clean microfiber cloth and put a little alcohol on it. Then hold the neg firmly against a clean surface and gently wipe. Usually it only takes one swipe and you are done. There is no need to rewash your negs unless the spots are on the emulsion side (don't wipe the emulsion side), but they rarely ever are.

logan2z said:

They're supposed to be one of the best labs in the country. They're in your neck of the woods.

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Come on, name names.

If they're in my neck of the woods, do understand that their tap water "quality" might be similar to air quality here. Namely, not even "creamy," but "crunchy." Our annual water report indicates hardness of 265 ppm CaCO3 and total dissolved solids of 592 ppm. I mix all solutions with distilled (actual "prepared by steam distillation," not "for distilled water uses") water, even the Photoflo bath. Unless your "one of the best labs" uses a similar final step, "water" spots are almost inevitable.

Before wetting the film again, try breathing on the base side and gently rub the spot with a clean microfiber cloth.