Kudos to Ilford

Photo Engineer · Mar 29, 2011

Uncoated Baryta paper continues to become more and more difficult to obtain, so recently Mark Osterman and I were faced with a need with no supplier.

I contacted Simon Galley of Ilford and he shipped me a case of 1000 sheets of 11x14 uncoated glossy Baryta paper within 2 weeks of my confirmation. And the price was just right!

As of now, all boxes have been sold or are promised to either Mark's students or mine and I am in the process of seeing if anyone will be willing to sell this on a regular basis. It is proven to be superb for Silver Gelatin or Collodion POP and has many other uses for alternative print materials.

Please do not contact Ilford. This was a one shot to see if the paper was fully satisfactory, if the need was there and if someone was willing to sell it. The first two parts of that have been proven and the last item of this is being worked out for the alternative photographers out there. You will hear of the outcome.

This note is just to say KUDOS TO ILFORD.

A side note here is that Kodak revised their loss upward by many millions of dollars due to loss of good will. Ilford can count on a big gain in good will by keeping on going as they have been.

Thank you Simon!

PE

Jeff Kubach · Mar 29, 2011

I never used that type of paper, but sure sounds like a great deal to me!

Jeff

TSSPro · Mar 29, 2011

I will FWD this post to a fellow grad student I study with. He has been struggling to make his own POP for some time now and his frustrations are great. Hopefully there may become an avenue in the future for him to commercially purchase a consistent POP if a dealer ever comes to be.

All the best-

Photo Engineer · Mar 29, 2011

This post relates only to UNCOATED Baryta. The individual is expected to coat whatever alternative print materials on it themselves. It is not directed to commercial manufacture of any product, just the potential availability of the raw uncoated Baryta paper support.

PE

Andrew O'Neill · Mar 29, 2011

I sure would like some for carbon transfer printing. Would be neat if a matte version came available.

hpulley · Mar 29, 2011

It is becoming a niche market so anyone who can respond quickly to requests like this is going to have the best chance of surviving IMO!

mjs · Mar 30, 2011

I heard that Kodak discontinued their B&W photographic paper because they couldn't get the paper any more? Maybe they should have tried buying it from Ilford.

Mike

Photo Engineer · Mar 30, 2011

mjs said:
I heard that Kodak discontinued their B&W photographic paper because they couldn't get the paper any more? Maybe they should have tried buying it from Ilford.

Mike

This is simply not true.

Kodak had its own paper factory in which it made high quality photographic paper, and they also purchased some from outside vendors just as most other manufacturers of photographic papers do.

PE

gmikol · Mar 31, 2011

So let's assume for a moment that an uncoated baryta paper were commercially available. What sort of additional preparation might be required for use with various alt-processes. Obviously for carbon, it would need to be sized with gelatin, acrylic, etc. What about iron-based processes, Pt/Pd, cyano, kalli, vandyke, etc? Would you just use it straight out of the package?

Just curious for now, but if a product like this were commercially available, I would consider buying some if it saved time.

--Greg

Photo Engineer · Mar 31, 2011

Greg;

There is no indication that any sizing is needed. Some processes do benefit from the sizing though by giving more contrast or better tone, but this is process specific. I have gotten good results with even carbon with no sizing. But, sizing is quite easy anyhow.

PE

mjs · Apr 1, 2011

Photo Engineer said:
This is simply not true.

Kodak had its own paper factory in which it made high quality photographic paper, and they also purchased some from outside vendors just as most other manufacturers of photographic papers do.

PE

I guess I heard wrong then. (Darned internet!!) Thanks for setting things straight. Do you happen to know, then, was it just that declining volumes just made it uneconomical to continue making paper?

Mike

Photo Engineer · Apr 1, 2011

Mike;

I had the opportunity to speak to Antonio Perez about this personally at the time this event took place. His words were "We are hemorrhaging out of our paper business". So, with extreme losses, they had to close the B&W paper plants.

PE

Tom Kershaw · Apr 1, 2011

Photo Engineer said:
Mike;

I had the opportunity to speak to Antonio Perez about this personally at the time this event took place. His words were "We are hemorrhaging out of our paper business". So, with extreme losses, they had to close the B&W paper plants.

PE

Due to Kodak being set up for manufacturing large quantities of product?

Tom

Photo Engineer · Apr 1, 2011

No Tom. It just was not selling. There were 4 paper plants. One of them alone used 6 machines for color. They could have scaled back, but B&W paper sales fell faster than anything else in their inventory. At least from what I know. Color is still up there selling!

PE

dr5chrome · Apr 3, 2011

This is good to hear. Providing a specialized service in a custom process with ILFORD materials, we have not seen any such 'good-will' toward services for their products. As much product as we freely advertise, we have never even gotten an acknowledgment.

Before Kodak fell apart, dr5 was a regular on Ed Warners agenda. I miss Ed.

dw

Photo Engineer said:
Uncoated Baryta paper continues to become more and more difficult to obtain, so recently Mark Osterman and I were faced with a need with no supplier.

I contacted Simon Galley of Ilford and he shipped me a case of 1000 sheets of 11x14 uncoated glossy Baryta paper within 2 weeks of my confirmation. And the price was just right!

As of now, all boxes have been sold or are promised to either Mark's students or mine and I am in the process of seeing if anyone will be willing to sell this on a regular basis. It is proven to be superb for Silver Gelatin or Collodion POP and has many other uses for alternative print materials.

Please do not contact Ilford. This was a one shot to see if the paper was fully satisfactory, if the need was there and if someone was willing to sell it. The first two parts of that have been proven and the last item of this is being worked out for the alternative photographers out there. You will hear of the outcome.

This note is just to say KUDOS TO ILFORD.

A side note here is that Kodak revised their loss upward by many millions of dollars due to loss of good will. Ilford can count on a big gain in good will by keeping on going as they have been.

Thank you Simon!

PE

Zathras · Apr 3, 2011

Photo Engineer said:
No Tom. It just was not selling. There were 4 paper plants. One of them alone used 6 machines for color. They could have scaled back, but B&W paper sales fell faster than anything else in their inventory. At least from what I know. Color is still up there selling!

PE

One of the sad things I experienced in college photo courses was an anti Kodak mentality among some of the instructors, especially some of the more "artistic" ones.

I had one instructor who would not accept any work from students if Kodak products were used in its creation. The jerk actually said that to the class at the beginning of the semester. We were asked to bring in samples of our work at the second class meeting, so I brought some of my work to show to him. He really liked on of my shots until I told him it was shot on Tri-X, developed in HC-110 and printed on Polyfiber. He got mad and told me that under no circumstances was I to use Kodak film or paper for my assignments.

He actually checked peoples's contact sheets for edge markings and rejected anything that was shot on Kodak film. You had to shoot on FP4 or Agfapan-100 and develop in FG7 1+15 with water. I finally quit that class because I thought the instructor was a Bozo.

This might be an extreme example, but I know many people who were told not to bother with Kodak papers by their instructors, because Kodak papers were not as good as those offered by other manufacturers. This might have helped contribute to the decline in Kodak paper sales.

I personally liked some Kodak papers very much. I miss Polyfiber and Polymax Fine Art fiber base and Polymax RC (a very good RC paper imho).

I never really warmed up to Mutigrade, although I do use it. I would not hesitate to use my favorite Kodak papers if they were available again.

fschifano · Apr 3, 2011

Zathras said:
One of the sad things I experienced in college photo courses was an anti Kodak mentality among some of the instructors, especially some of the more "artistic" ones...

My sentiments exactly. Perhaps you could have complained to his boss about this rather unusual and definitely uncalled for behavior. You're probably right. The guy is a Bozo. And mind you, I've nothing against Ilford products; I think they're first rate and as good as and better than most. I simply prefer Kodak products for most things because that's the stuff I grew up with and been used too all my life. I do miss their papers, especially the last versions of Polymax and Polycontrast before they ceased production. Still have a little bit of single weight FB Polymax Fine Art. Lovely paper for small prints.

Sirius Glass · Apr 3, 2011

I too prefer Kodak to Ilford, but with black & white paper and ISO 400 black & white 4"x5" film I tend to make an exception.

Steve

Kudos to Ilford

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