Kreonite still in business; Refrema not?

Kino · May 7, 2019

Just doing some basic research on dip and dunk processors and it appears that Refrema (LUCHT Inc.) has gone out of business; is this correct?

However, Kreonite still seems to be going: http://www.kreonite.com/dipdunk.htm

Anyone know of other manufacturers of DND processors?

Eric Rose · May 7, 2019

Ya just try and get parts. We threw out all our Kreonite processors in exasperation.

Kino · May 7, 2019

Eric Rose said:
Ya just try and get parts. We threw out all our Kreonite processors in exasperation.

Sorry to hear that! Wonder how they stay if business if they can't supply parts?

mshchem · May 7, 2019

Kreonite was bought by a husband and wife business. They are still on the web located in Oklahoma. They show dozens of configurations of sinks and the like. I would be shocked if they are still making these beautiful fiberglass sinks. I think they may still service or sell used equipment. It would be wonderful if all the molds have been saved.

jamesaz · May 8, 2019

I have delt with Dunning photo, I believe it's called. I got some parts for my sink. They were very helpful and, IIRC had a technician that would travel to work on them. It was maybe 5 years ago so I have no idea of what the current situation is.

AgX · May 8, 2019

The only manufacturer of hanger processors still having their site up (well...) is

Tecnolab in Europe

Bob Carnie · May 8, 2019

Hosstert just sold and installed a dip and dunk BW processor to Downtown Camera in Toronto... I believe the company is in Europe.

Henning Serger · May 8, 2019

Kino said:
Just doing some basic research on dip and dunk processors and it appears that Refrema (LUCHT Inc.) has gone out of business; is this correct?
However, Kreonite still seems to be going: http://www.kreonite.com/dipdunk.htm
Anyone know of other manufacturers of DND processors?

Yes, afaik REFREMA is out of business. But a lab I very good know, which is running four Refrema machines, told me that spare parts are still available.
In 2014 I visited a professional lab in Singapore which just had got delivered a brand new Technolab E6 dip-and-dunk processor, which Technolab had manufactured on order for this lab.
Hostert in Germany is manufacturing new dip-and-dunk processors for all processes.
Colenta in Austria is manufacturing roller transport processing machines for all processes.
JOBO is producing rotation film processors which can be used for all processes (I've visited their factory several times, latest last Friday).
And there are several companies which have focussed on refurbishing processing and printing machines.
And some companies (especially in Asia) have concentrated on making spare parts for minilab machines.

Best regards,
Henning

AgX · May 9, 2019

In general there seems to be more offer for roller transport machines.

Thank you for the update on Hostert.
Tecnolab have gone into food processing machines, but that their film processing site is still up, indicates that they did not cancel that business completely.

Bob Carnie · May 9, 2019

AgX said:
In general there seems to be more offer for roller transport machines.

Thank you for the update on Hostert.
Tecnolab have gone into food processing machines, but that their film processing site is still up, indicates that they did not cancel that business completely.

I plan to go to Downtown Camera to see their new machine... I must admit I was completely blown away that 1. Hostert was still making machines 2. Someone in Toronto would pony up over 100k for this machine.
Its good news for photographers who shoot film as the dip and dunk system that is well maintained will operate wonderfully and I encourage all here to contact Claudia Ma at Downtown and send in you film.. Tell them Bob sent you.

mshchem · May 9, 2019

Henning Serger said:
Yes, afaik REFREMA is out of business. But a lab I very good know, which is running four Refrema machines, told me that spare parts are still available.
In 2014 I visited a professional lab in Singapore which just had got delivered a brand new Technolab E6 dip-and-dunk processor, which Technolab had manufactured on order for this lab.
Hostert in Germany is manufacturing new dip-and-dunk processors for all processes.
Colenta in Austria is manufacturing roller transport processing machines for all processes.
JOBO is producing rotation film processors which can be used for all processes (I've visited their factory several times, latest last Friday).
And there are several companies which have focussed on refurbishing processing and printing machines.
And some companies (especially in Asia) have concentrated on making spare parts for minilab machines.

Best regards,
Henning

Jobo should offer factory pick up like Daimler does on high end Mercedes Benz. I could travel to Germany spend a couple weeks relaxing, then stop and see a nice new CPP3 before it's sent FedEx Custom Critical airfreight. Jobo is amazing. I have a CPP2, I will buy a new machine at some point in the near future. Everything Jobo builds is built to last.

darkroommike · May 10, 2019

mshchem said:
Kreonite was bought by a husband and wife business. They are still on the web located in Oklahoma. They show dozens of configurations of sinks and the like. I would be shocked if they are still making these beautiful fiberglass sinks. I think they may still service or sell used equipment. It would be wonderful if all the molds have been saved.

Our school just bought a new Kreonite sink (not our choice but the admin specified the sink). The only difference I can see from the sinks of yore is that the color is now gray rather than Kreonite green. The sink is a very thick fiberglass product with a lovely gel coat. And if we keep it clean and shined it should last 50 years or so. The Kreonite processing machines Dunning sells are rebuilt not new.

Nokton48 · May 10, 2019

I just yesterday sold my Kreonite CPT16 16" Color Paper Processor.
A very nice guy drove all the way from Seattle to me (I'm in Ohio!) and picked it up.
Win-win situation.

He says Dunning makes a lot of sinks right now. I have one of their plate making sinks I am rebuilding.

Henning Serger · May 10, 2019

AgX said:
In general there seems to be more offer for roller transport machines.

That's not surprising. Roller transport machines are the most used machines in professional labs, because they are the "standard equipment" of the small(er) minilabs.They have been built in different sizes for different volumes. So no matter how big your lab was, or is, you most probably would have found the roller transport machine with the right volume for your business. Quite economical for small(er) labs.
Dip-and-dunk machines offer some quality advantages, but you need a certain minimal volume to run them economically, which is higher compared to most roller transport machines.DaD ist the optimal solution for big(ger) high-quality professional labs.

AgX said:
Thank you for the update on Hostert.

You're welcome.

Best regards,
Henning

mshchem · May 10, 2019

darkroommike said:
Our school just bought a new Kreonite sink (not our choice but the admin specified the sink). The only difference I can see from the sinks of yore is that the color is now gray rather than Kreonite green. The sink is a very thick fiberglass product with a lovely gel coat. And if we keep it clean and shined it should last 50 years or so. The Kreonite processing machines Dunning sells are rebuilt not new.

REALLY, THAT'S AWESOME. I don't need another sink but I may bust out a wall and expand. I love my green 8 footer. Mine is at least 50 years old and shows no signs of slowing down. Mine came out of a factory that closed in the late 70's.
Post a picture please. I have a 10 foot Arkay stainless sink that someone gave me, it's nice but it doesn't have a drain trough at the back etc.

Henning Serger · May 10, 2019

Bob Carnie said:
I plan to go to Downtown Camera to see their new machine... I must admit I was completely blown away that 1. Hostert was still making machines 2. Someone in Toronto would pony up over 100k for this machine.

Two companies with brave and clever business decisions:
1. Hostert: They have had the stamina during the "digital revolution" to prepare for the film revival. And now in the film revival having new business again.
2. Downtown camera: Analysing the market and film revival right by coming to the conclusion that the revival will be sustainable (I can absolutely agree with that from my own market analysis), and that a long term investment in offering high-quality film processing to the customers makes sense.

Best regards,
Henning

AgX · May 10, 2019

Henning Serger said:
Dip-and-dunk machines offer some quality advantages, but you need a certain minimal volume to run them economically, which is higher compared to most roller transport machines.DaD ist the optimal solution for big(ger) high-quality professional labs.

The main benefitial feature of hanger processors is that they can easily be applied to most different processes and thus are very convenient as long as they got enough (or even a surplus of) tanks, and that they can handle easily most different formats (even at same time).
The latter requires that large volume of baths.

Henning Serger · May 10, 2019

mshchem said:
Jobo should offer factory pick up like Daimler does on high end Mercedes Benz.

They offer that to you if you want . If you order directly at them (via their own online store) a JOBO Processor (or Chamonix camera) and ask if you can pick it up by yourself at the factory, no problem.
And just recently the JOBO CEO has personally shipped/delivered a brand new JOBO CPP-3 processor to a film manufacturer. They need it for their product tests in their R&D department in addition to their first JOBO processor (R&D on new products and quality control tests for current products). The R&D team needs the high precision the JOBO processor offers.

Best regards,
Henning

mshchem · May 10, 2019

Here's a photo of mine, it's been in 3 different houses of mine, 3 different stands I've made the white tray is a 16x20, I can fit 20 x 24 trays, but I rarely go above 16x20. The weird looking gray thing is a 3 foot fume extractor, it's detachable from the blower if I need to get it out of the way.
I'm going to try to print tonight. Pardon the mess

mshchem · May 10, 2019

Henning Serger said:
They offer that to you if you want . If you order directly at them (via their own online store) a JOBO Processor (or Chamonix camera) and ask if you can pick it up by yourself at the factory, no problem.
And just recently the JOBO CEO has personally shipped/delivered a brand new JOBO CPP-3 processor to a film manufacturer. They need it for their product tests in their R&D department in addition to their first JOBO processor (R&D on new products and quality control tests for current products). The R&D team needs the high precision the JOBO processor offers.

Best regards,
Henning

I used my CPP2 last night to develop 2 rolls of black and white 120. It's such a pleasure to use. The design of the whole system amazes me. These machines are expensive, but are built to very high standards. If you want precision in your work this is the best way.

Nokton48 · May 10, 2019

Big Stuff moved in darkroom by Nokton48, on Flickr

I have this Kreonite Plate Washing Sink in my basement (bottom right in photo). I am going to build a table for this unit, and use as a second utility sink, just outside the darkroom.

Sink Area Done! by Nokton48, on Flickr

Nokton48 · May 10, 2019

mshchem said:
Here's a photo of mine, it's been in 3 different houses of mine, 3 different stands I've made the white tray is a 16x20, I can fit 20 x 24 trays, but I rarely go above 16x20. The weird looking gray thing is a 3 foot fume extractor, it's detachable from the blower if I need to get it out of the way.
I'm going to try to print tonight. Pardon the mess
View attachment 223304

Mschem,

That fume extractor is AWESOME. Exactly what I need to add. Where did you get all the pieces for it?
Thanks -Dan

mshchem · May 10, 2019

Nokton48 said:
Mschem,

That fume extractor is AWESOME. Exactly what I need to add. Where did you get all the pieces for it?
Thanks -Dan

The blower is a "mini" dust collector from Harbor Freight, China, 1hp 7A 125 VAC. Supposed to be 660 CFM. It's just enough, I'm running it through 4 inch steel galvanized duct. I cut a hole (4 inch?) through the end joist and bought a heavy gauge steel dryer vent with a decent weather flap and a open screen to keep the small mammals out.
The collector/ plenum thingy is a rainwater collector for driveway drains. It was on clearance. Because, who in their right mind would use plastic instead of steel. It's 3 feet long, bought a short piece of drainage pipe and a elbow. I am done smelling toner or stinky fixer. I use pretty low odor fixers and citric acid stop. But there's no getting away from even selenium toner, and sulfide is horrible. I poured 28% acetic acid into a small tray, couldn't smell a thing. I had a little Doran fan before the big blower it worked but was not enough.
I have two 6 inch air returns from the main floor of the house for make up air and the collector adds some restriction which is just about right. My darkroom is a very large utility room, has furnace. The furnace has a powered exhaust, you need to be careful, there's a pressure cutout switch on the furnace which can trip turning off the heat.
I haven't had any problems. Blower was around 150 usd, rest of the parts around 50-60. I saw the pieces at the store and a light bulb came on. Worked out better than I expected.

AgX · May 11, 2019

But a big exhaustor only is as good as the influx of air into the darkroom.
In times of people sealing their houses completely this is an issue.

(If I understood you right you hinted at such influx, but others must think of this.)

Jim Blodgett · May 11, 2019

However, Kreonite still seems to be going: http://www.kreonite.com/dipdunk.htm

I don't know anything about Kreonite film development machines, but I recently refurbished an old Kreonite color print processor and I got great service from the folks at Dunning. They know their machines and they had the parts I needed, some brand new, others used, all in great shape and priced right. If you have any doubt, call and ask to speak to the guys in the parts department (pretty sure they are brothers). Ask if they still have parts for the machine you are considering buying.

Another possibility is Larry Kull of Kull Photographic in Auburn WA. He recently retired but he still has lots of parts and even a few complete machines he would sell if he could find a buyer - great guy, again, knowledgeable and helpful. Pretty sure his number is still on their web site - I'm traveling right now and his number is on my rolodex at home. Let me know if you have trouble reaching him and I'll try to help when I get home next week.

Kreonite still in business; Refrema not?

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