Konica II Rangefinder Repair -- Please Advise

[Minolta93]

Hello everyone,

A few months ago, I was given a box of cameras. Unfortunately, most of them aren't in full working condition. The one in question today is a Konica II rangefinder, with a 50mm f2.8 Hexanon lens, and a Konirapid-S shutter.

This camera is very close to being in perfect functioning condition, but it seems to have some problems with the shutter mechanism. The aperture works perfectly, film transport looks good, rangefinder appears to be calibrated properly, the optics look pretty good as well (although the inside of the front lens element almost looks oily, but it doesn't actually seem to affect image quality from looking through the lens. I haven't shot anything with this, though.)

There are a few problems. First, it seems that shutter speeds from 1/10 and longer don't work properly. At these speeds, the shutter cocks fine. Upon pressing the shutter release, the shutter lever moves but then stops. On my other cameras, the shutter swings in then you can hear the gears whirring.

On this camera, the gears do not seem to engage, there is no whirring sound. The shutter is stuck open and the lever is in a halfway position. The only way I've found to get the shutter to complete its motion is to rotate the shutter speed ring towards the "B" bulb setting. Once the indicator arrow points about halfway between 1 and B, the shutter lever starts moving again, I can hear the whirring, and then the shutter closes.

So the camera is usable if you stick with 1/25 or faster. I plan to give this camera to someone, and in its current state it should work for them... but I'd really like to fix these minor issues all the same. I have been hoping to learn how to repair cameras or at least perform a CLA and I think now might be a good time to try it.

In Bulb mode, the shutter release doesn't have enough spring in it to close the shutter when you release it, unless you kind of give it a flick as you release it. If you use the body shutter release then in Bulb mode, the shutter just stays open.

Finally, there's a knob on the front of the camera that's for a timed mode. It's supposed to be used so that you press the release, and the shutter stays open until you turn this knob back to the normal mode, but what happens is this. Set the shutter dial to Bulb mode. Make sure the knob is turned to the "T" setting, and press the release. The shutter opens, so far, so good. But upon turning the knob back to "I", although I can hear a definite click from inside the camera, the shutter release lever on the lens doesn't spring back like it should, and the shutter stays open unless you push the release lever back into place.

So altogether not the worst of problems. Nevertheless, I'd like to try to fix them and from the way it looks to me, I think it really just needs a minor CLA for the shutter mechanism. (The shutter blades move fine).

I looked online, but I couldn't find any resources for this specific camera. Nothing on the repair forum here either, maybe I didn't look hard enough?

Could anyone give me some pointers on how best to take apart the lens to gain access to the shutter? What fluids, oils, and cleaning solvents should I be using here? I don't want to use something that will cause it to gum up even more.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

Minolta93

 

[Jarrett]

I'm not sure how closely related the II is the the III and the IIIA but there is a video on YouTube about dissembling them.

 

[gone]

You could give the shutter a squirt of lighter fluid, but the slow speeds hanging up is kinda normal on old cameras. Usually, you need a shutter release cable to get 'B' working on most but not all old shutters too. Lastly, avoid the self timer on any old camera. Treat it as if it were radioactive. They tend to stick, and if one sticks midway in the shutter cycle, it can stay stuck.

 

[albada]

As momus pointed out, sticky slow speeds are so common that you can regard that as normal. Also, chances are that 1/25 is more like 1/15 or even 1/10, so you won't need the slow speeds for indoors shooting anyway. Unless you have experience in working on Compur-clone shutters such as this one, I would not open it.

 

[4season]

Could anyone give me some pointers on how best to take apart the lens to gain access to the shutter? What fluids, oils, and cleaning solvents should I be using here? I don't want to use something that will cause it to gum up even more.

When I was just starting to tinker with cameras, I found this book very helpful as it answers many basic questions which typical camera service manuals don't address, including tools, lubricants and cleaners.
https://www.lensculture.com/books/4490-camera-maintenance-repair-bk-1
Be advised that camera repair involves skill which will take time and practice to develop - no YouTube video or step-by-step guide can teach you not to scratch your camera with an errant screwdriver or spanner wrench, it's more of a muscle-memory thing. So don't feel bad if your first attempts aren't entirely successful. With Tomosey's book in hand (you may be able to borrow through your library) I'd probably start with some of the crappier cameras, and save that Konica until later.

My guess is that with practice, you'll find that Konica a fairly straightforward, one-afternoon job of replacing stale lubricants, but as a beginner, it may seem complicated.

 

[4season]

Unless you have experience in working on Compur-clone shutters such as this one, I would not open it.

I learned how to work with leaf shutters by taking apart a Hasselblad lens: In many ways it was the perfect way to learn because I think I only paid around $50 for that lens (it had broken parts ratting around inside) and parts are relatively large. Made a lot of mistakes which saw me disassemble and reassemble the lens repeatedly, and at one point had it sitting in pieces for a year or more. Suffice to say I became pretty familiar with the inner workings of the thing, and 90% of the know-how works with other leaf shutters too.

 

[Minolta93]

I'm not sure how closely related the II is the the III and the IIIA but there is a video on YouTube about dissembling them.

Thank you, I will have a look.

You could give the shutter a squirt of lighter fluid, but the slow speeds hanging up is kinda normal on old cameras. Usually, you need a shutter release cable to get 'B' working on most but not all old shutters too. Lastly, avoid the self timer on any old camera. Treat it as if it were radioactive. They tend to stick, and if one sticks midway in the shutter cycle, it can stay stuck.

Yes, I figured slow speeds being stuck is common. I actually went to the hardware store to get a can of naptha, but they didn't carry it. I'll probably have to order it and pick it up at the store. This camera doesn't have a self timer, so I haven't had to worry about that. Thanks for the tip about bulb mode. My Contina's bulb mode seems to work without a cable so I thought it would be the same for other cameras.

As momus pointed out, sticky slow speeds are so common that you can regard that as normal. Also, chances are that 1/25 is more like 1/15 or even 1/10, so you won't need the slow speeds for indoors shooting anyway. Unless you have experience in working on Compur-clone shutters such as this one, I would not open it.

Actually, I've already opened it, had a look inside, and put it back together. It still functions the same as it did before but I think the action of opening it may have helped free some things and it works slightly smoother now.

When I was just starting to tinker with cameras, I found this book very helpful as it answers many basic questions which typical camera service manuals don't address, including tools, lubricants and cleaners.
https://www.lensculture.com/books/4490-camera-maintenance-repair-bk-1
Be advised that camera repair involves skill which will take time and practice to develop - no YouTube video or step-by-step guide can teach you not to scratch your camera with an errant screwdriver or spanner wrench, it's more of a muscle-memory thing. So don't feel bad if your first attempts aren't entirely successful. With Tomosey's book in hand (you may be able to borrow through your library) I'd probably start with some of the crappier cameras, and save that Konica until later.

My guess is that with practice, you'll find that Konica a fairly straightforward, one-afternoon job of replacing stale lubricants, but as a beginner, it may seem complicated.

Thanks for the link, I'll have a look at that. I actually have another two Konicas, another model II that is completely jammed, and a model I, I believe. I got all of these for free but most are broken unfortunately, so maybe it would be better to practice on one of the ones that hasn't been working for many years rather than risk damaging one of the ones that (mostly) works. having said that, I've already had a look inside the shutter and I understand it a little better now, but still not much. I did notice some sort of lever at the bottom of the ring area that seems to be sticking, and turning the speed dial towards Bulb ends up pushing this arm out of the way which allows the shutter lever to start moving again, so that's why the shutter would become unstuck when turning the ring back. It's just a small lever that seems to be holding everything up.

I learned how to work with leaf shutters by taking apart a Hasselblad lens: In many ways it was the perfect way to learn because I think I only paid around $50 for that lens (it had broken parts ratting around inside) and parts are relatively large. Made a lot of mistakes which saw me disassemble and reassemble the lens repeatedly, and at one point had it sitting in pieces for a year or more. Suffice to say I became pretty familiar with the inner workings of the thing, and 90% of the know-how works with other leaf shutters too.

I'm hoping that I can learn a bit with this camera or one of my others so that I can fix more in the future. But I got them all for free, which is nice.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Naptha is the generic term for lighter fluid / Ronsonol.

 

[Minolta93]

Naptha is the generic term for lighter fluid / Ronsonol.

Oh, I do know that. Generally Ronsonol/Zippo brand lighter fluid is much more expensive than just plain naptha despite being basically the same thing. Either way, the hardware store I went to didn't carry that kind of lighter fluid, anyway.

 

[4season]

Oh, I do know that. Generally Ronsonol/Zippo brand lighter fluid is much more expensive than just plain naptha despite being basically the same thing. Either way, the hardware store I went to didn't carry that kind of lighter fluid, anyway.

You might also try hexane which is sold as rubber cement thinner by Speedball under the "Bestine" brand name.

 

[albada]

Oh, I do know that. Generally Ronsonol/Zippo brand lighter fluid is much more expensive than just plain naptha despite being basically the same thing. Either way, the hardware store I went to didn't carry that kind of lighter fluid, anyway.

You and I have made the mistake of living in California, where all good chemicals are illegal. It's illegal for stores to sell naphtha. Although I'm surprised that you can't find lighter fluid either.
But to my surprise, you can buy naphtha through amazon and have it shipped here.
I hear that Coleman camping fuel is naphtha, and it's still possible to buy that online as well.

 

[spark]

I live in California. Ronsonol is still sold at Walgreens though they can't ship it. You can also use charcoal lighter fluid sold by the quart at many places.

 

[Dismayed]

Skip the lighter fluid - do it right. Greg Weber specializes in Konica cameras. He did a nice job on my IIIa a few years ago.

http://www.webercamera.com/home.html

 

[Minolta93]

You might also try hexane which is sold as rubber cement thinner by Speedball under the "Bestine" brand name.

Thank you. I've been a little unsure about which other solvents might be effective, I'll check for hexane if I can find it locally.

You and I have made the mistake of living in California, where all good chemicals are illegal. It's illegal for stores to sell naphtha. Although I'm surprised that you can't find lighter fluid either.
But to my surprise, you can buy naphtha through amazon and have it shipped here.
I hear that Coleman camping fuel is naphtha, and it's still possible to buy that online as well.

Yes, I just learned that naptha is banned in this state, and frankly, I'm not too surprised, although I'm a bit upset anyway. My only worry with lighter fluids is that perhaps they may not be pure naptha, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try anyway, right?

I live in California. Ronsonol is still sold at Walgreens though they can't ship it. You can also use charcoal lighter fluid sold by the quart at many places.

Have you personally used charcoal lighter fluid with good results as a cleaning solvent? I know I've used some in a zippo before but I've never tried to use some to clean anything.

Skip the lighter fluid - do it right. Greg Weber specializes in Konica cameras. He did a nice job on my IIIa a few years ago.

http://www.webercamera.com/home.html

I appreciate the sentiment, but I'd rather not do this for a few reasons:

1. I don't have a lot of money, and I did get these broken/semiworking cameras for free. Financially, it wouldn't really be practical for me to pay to have them repaired.

2. The world seems to be in short supply of people who can work on these cameras, and since I enjoy fixing things in general, I'd like to learn how to fix vintage cameras as well. And a minor CLA (really just a C&L in this case) is, in my opinion, a relatively safe undertaking as a first foray into maintaining and repairing these cameras.

3. Fiddling with these cameras for me is as much a hobby as shooting with them.

4. From the research I've done naptha would have been a safe solvent for the shutter mechanism and surrounding components, and other petroleum distillates should work well as well.

-----------------

I should hopefully have some time to pick up either some lighter fluid or perhaps hexane if I can find it. I've been a little busy as I've been applying for part time jobs while I'm still in college, and I start work this week. That at least makes my financial outlook a bit better! Thanks again for the advice. I'll post an update if I get the shutter working well again.

Minolta93

 

[spark]

I’ve used charcoal lighter fluid as a solvent and degreaser. This was a generic/store brand. A caution is that there’s no assurance that one brand uses the same stuff as another, and based on smells they don’t. It works good on crappy foam light seals.
Specifically on camera innards, I’ve used isopropyl alcohol (IPA), and cigarette lighter fluid (Ronsonol). The IPA is good around plastics though it’s slower on cutting dried grease.

 

[Minolta93]

I’ve used charcoal lighter fluid as a solvent and degreaser. This was a generic/store brand. A caution is that there’s no assurance that one brand uses the same stuff as another, and based on smells they don’t. It works good on crappy foam light seals.
Specifically on camera innards, I’ve used isopropyl alcohol (IPA), and cigarette lighter fluid (Ronsonol). The IPA is good around plastics though it’s slower on cutting dried grease.

I actually went and bought charcoal lighter fluid today. There were three kinds at the store, the Kingsford brand, a generic brand, and an "eco" lighter fluid. On the Web I was able to find safety data sheets for all of these. For Kingsford, the product was listed as 100% petroleum distillates which I figured would essentially be naptha; the "eco" lighter fluid was just a mixture of various oils which I don't think would work as a solvent; and the generic brand said the fluid was a "trade secret". I planned on getting the Kingston fluid, but I smelled it and compared it to the generic brand and they smelled exactly the same, so I went ahead and got a quart of the generic brand lighter fluid for two dollars.

I took it home and I have been using a bit of lighter fluid on the shutter mechanism for a while now, and the shutter seems to be in a much better condition. the 1 second setting even seems to work now without getting stuck every time, so it's improved quite a bit. Luckily there's no plastic here, if this were a newer camera I'd consider using IPA instead of lighter fluid.

 

[Minolta93]

Here is the lens removed from the camera.


First, the front lens element can be unscrewed by hand. The locking ring that says "KONIRAPID-S" on it needs to be taken off. there is a small semicircular locking cam on it with two pinholes. I think there's a special tool for this, but I found that it could be gently rotated into the unlocked position with the end of a needle without scratching anything.


This is a closer view of the shutter once the speed setting ring has been taken off.

 

[albada]

I tried charcoal lighter fluid bought at a grocery store. I worked great! But after a year or two, oil would creep onto the blades of shutters, making me suspect that the fluid contained a tiny amount of oil. For starting charcoals, that won't matter, but in a shutter...
Hence my suggestion of buying something labeled "Naphtha".

 

[Minolta93]

I tried charcoal lighter fluid bought at a grocery store. I worked great! But after a year or two, oil would creep onto the blades of shutters, making me suspect that the fluid contained a tiny amount of oil. For starting charcoals, that won't matter, but in a shutter...
Hence my suggestion of buying something labeled "Naphtha".

Maybe flushing the shutters with alcohol would help remove and displace the oils and then the alcohol could evaporate fully afterwards?

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

I tried charcoal lighter fluid bought at a grocery store.

Yeah, I imagine that stuff is made from whatever the refinery has left over after making other things. It certainly stinks to high heaven and produces copious soot when it burns.

Cigarette lighter fluid (Zippo, Ronsonol...) evaporates cleanly leaving nothing behind and it burns without producing soot or stench. And it is safe on plastics, which most other cleaning solvents aren't. I suspect dry cleaning fluid would also work. Zippo fluid may only show up at smoke shops these days, all I see being used are bic lighters and E-Cigs.

 

[reddesert]

Naphtha is a generic term (in the US) for a light hydrocarbon mixture that can be used as fuel, like lighter fluid. Thus naphtha from different sources might have a different mixture. I added the "in the US" qualifier because I believe that outside the US, naphtha has different meanings.

For the purpose of freeing shutters that are just sticky at slow speeds, I try to use electronic contact cleaner (such as CRC or Deoxit). You can typically get this at auto parts stores (or electronics parts suppliers if one exists near you). It's usually made of light hydrocarbons such as hexanes, even lighter than lighter fluid. It evaporates very quickly so my goal is to squirt a little in and fire the shutter, not try to soak the mechanism.

Contact cleaner was reformulated maybe 20+ years ago to eliminate Freon-type compounds, but so far as I know the current formulations are available everywhere.

 

[Rodric]

So how did you make out with your repair? I have one sitting in front of me that has the shutter blades stuck open. Looking for some insight in tackling it. Thanks.

 

[Rodric]

Is there a sequence to removing the lens from the body? Does the collapsible lens require removal of the black box portion inside the body? Thanks...

 

[Minolta93]

So how did you make out with your repair? I have one sitting in front of me that has the shutter blades stuck open. Looking for some insight in tackling it. Thanks.

I have been busy with work and school, so I just put the lens back and haven't gotten back to it. From what I remember, removing the lens wasn't too hard. You see the screws on the front of the camera, of course. Those have to come out with a flathead screwdriver. I have the camera boxed up and stored somewhere so I can't get it right now. Once you get those front screws off, I think the entire lens assembly, including the black portion that resides inside the camera body, should pull out. You will have to do some fiddling with the lens and the shutter to get it to release from inside the body. I think there may be a screw or two in the body as well, but then the whole lens should pull out.

Once you have the lens out you should be able to work with it as you like, I was able to find videos online of people taking similar lenses apart which helped me. If the shutter is stuck I think you should be able to get to it and try to get it to move. Applying some solvent to the shutter blades should also help. I think alcohol will do the trick.

 

[Rodric]

Thank you. Yeah it was driving me crazy as I assumed the lens and helical housing would come out cleanly but it didn't. Finally got it out... The dried up oil holding the shutter in the housing was another obstacle.
Cleaned up and putting it back together. Just have to check shutter blades aren't bent as I'm having some firing issues