Koni-Omega vs. Mamiya Press

SMD · Sep 2, 2024

I am well covered in 6x7 cm with an almost complete kit of RB67. (I only need the 500 mm lens and the multiangle grip to be complete.) Still I always wanted a rangefinder for that format. (To be lightweight also but primarily for the ease of focusing.)
So I got me a Mamiya Press Super 23 with which I'm not happy. It is heavy, unbalanced and difficult to focus. The RF is also not great. (Not expressly bad, but also not stellar. Have seen better.) Worst of all it has the wiefinder on the wrong side. (Using my right eye I want the finder to be on the left side, so my nose is not in the way. Heck, I would like SLRs to also have the finder not central positioned.)

Now I am thinking about buying a Koni Omega (preferably the 200).

Do anybody own(ed) both cameras and can offer me a personal comparison?

Paul Howell · Sep 2, 2024

I used the Konica Omega Rapid when in the US Air Force in the 70s, I now own a Mamiya Universal and press. The Rapid is just that, much quicker in use than the Press. The ratchet advance cocks the shutter as the film is advance. The Mamiya, depending on the back, is a 2 stroke advance then you need to cock the shutter. The quick advance of the Konica is also a weakness as the gears can become worn and there are no replacement. The lens for both are very good. Mamiya made a larger number of focal lengths including a 250, an uncoupled and a faster 250 that coupled to the the rangefinder. With the Universal the viewfinder has brights lines for 6X7 and full frame is 6X9. There is also a muliback with masks and gates for 6X645 6X6 and 6X9. Somewhat rare is also a 6X9 sheet film back with ground glass. It only works with Mamiya sheet film holders, single sided. I have the 55, 65, 100 and 150 all are good performers. With both systems you do need an external viewfinder for the wide lens.

If you shoot events like wedding and concerts then the Rapid is a good choice as long as the film advance is in good shape. If you shoot landscapes and the like and can take your time then the Mamiya.

Other options, Houseman and Lindoh.

Sharktooth · Sep 3, 2024

I have both, but I almost never use my Mamiya Super 23. The problem with the Mamiyas is that there are no interlocks for anything, so you need to follow a strict regimen for shooting so you don't screw it up.

Mamiya
- Shutter does not cock when advancing the film. Too easy to accidentally double expose a frame
- I think you can change the lens without inserting the dark slide. Oh NO!

Koni Omega]
- Film advance also cocks the shutter
- Can't change the lens without inserting dark slide

Although the Koni has the viewfinder on the left side, the grip on the left makes it awkward for comfortable viewing. The left hand grip is the only downside to the Koni. It's better to just remove it, and support the camera from the bottom with your left hand, but then it's difficult to carry the camera around. I haven't figured out a good solution for this, unfortunately, or it would be the "perfect" camera for me.

hsandler · Sep 3, 2024

I only have the Koni-Omega Rapid (the version without dark slides). The rangefinder and viewfinder are good, and the accessory viewfinder for the wide angle lens is superb. There are three cold shoes on top, so you can put that viewfinder on the left if you like. I have not had frame advance issues with either of the backs I have had, but the spacing can vary and can reduce to two frames just touching depending on the film base thickness. I usually shoot infrared Rollei IR400 film and don't have spacing issues with that.

Although I know the RB67 is a very big heavy camera, I would not describe the Koni-Omega as a lightweight. It's a very heavy rig. Because the shutter release also pushes the film pressure plate forward, and cocks the shutter, it's a long stroke with a fair bit of resistance (at least in my un-CLA'd copy) which can make handheld operation at slow shutter speeds problematic.

Nicholas Lindan · Sep 3, 2024

If you don't like the heavy, unbalanced and awkward characteristics of the Mamiya I don't think you will like the Koni-Omega either.

You may be happier with a Mamiya 7 or possibly an older Zeiss folder. The Zeiss cameras were either 6x6 or 6x9 so you will need to do some cropping if you are enamored of the 6x7 aspect ratio.

MattKing · Sep 3, 2024

Sharktooth said:
The left hand grip is the only downside to the Koni. It's better to just remove it, and support the camera from the bottom with your left hand, but then it's difficult to carry the camera around. I haven't figured out a good solution for this, unfortunately, or it would be the "perfect" camera for me.

Just become left-handed like I am - it works great!
For me, the right-handed film advance was the issue, but it wouldn't be for most left-handed people.

Sharktooth · Sep 3, 2024

MattKing said:
Just become left-handed like I am - it works great!
For me, the right-handed film advance was the issue, but it wouldn't be for most left-handed people.

You must be left eyed too. If you're right eyed, like moi, the left side of your face mashes into your left hand holding the grip. If I was to switch to using my left eye then my face would be mashing into the camera body. It's a no win scenario no matter how you look at it.

I also don't like the shutter release button on the left side. That's not normal either. The Mamiya has similar issues, although the viewfinder is on the right.

I've been trying to find a right hand grip that can be angled forward to provide clearance to the pull-push film advance. If that grip had a finger trigger with cable release, then I could fire the shutter with my right hand, and it would be easy to view the finder with my right eye. Unfortunately, nobody seems to make right hand grips with a trigger release.

MattKing · Sep 3, 2024

Sharktooth said:
I also don't like the shutter release button on the left side. That's not normal either.

My Mamiya cameras - C330, 645 Pro and the RB67 I used to have all offer(ed) great left-hand trigger grips that make them perfect for me.
My lifelong quest is to prove that all you right hand dominant people are the ones who are "not normal" .

reddesert · Sep 3, 2024

I have no direct user experience with the Koni-Omega, but some experience with the Mamiya Press/Super 23. The obvious difference between the cameras is that the Koni-Omega has several interlocks and the Mamiya has none (except for one very late model film back), as mentioned above. I tie a string through the Mamiya darkslide handle to remind me if it's in/out. Both the Koni and the Mamiya are large and heavy with various projections that make them (IMO) difficult to pack but actually reasonably easy to hold.

The comments by the OP about the Mamiya being difficult to focus and about the viewfinder not on the left side make me wonder if they have the earlier Press model, not a Super 23. The Super 23 does in fact have the finder on the left side as requested by right-eyed people. The main advantage of the Super 23 (square top, silver or black, breechlock lens ring) over the Press (tapered top, gray or green) is that the Super 23's finder is much larger and nicer.

Sharktooth · Sep 3, 2024

reddesert said:
The comments by the OP about the Mamiya being difficult to focus and about the viewfinder not on the left side make me wonder if they have the earlier Press model, not a Super 23. The Super 23 does in fact have the finder on the left side as requested by right-eyed people.

Nope, the Super 23 has the viewfinder on the right, just like the original model. I just checked this, since it's been a long time since I've actually used mine. The original Mamiya 23 also has the viewfinder on the right. The Super 23 does have a much bigger viewfinder than the original model, however. I would say that the viewfinder in the Super 23 is nicer to look through than the Koni, but the Koni has parallax correcting frame lines.

Sharktooth · Sep 3, 2024

MattKing said:
My lifelong quest is to prove that all you right hand dominant people are the ones who are "not normal" .

Alas, we're all left behind in the dusts of time. Such is the life of an analogue fossil.

Andrew O'Neill · Sep 3, 2024

MattKing said:
My Mamiya cameras - C330, 645 Pro and the RB67 I used to have all offer(ed) great left-hand trigger grips that make them perfect for me.
My lifelong quest is to prove that all you right hand dominant people are the ones who are "not normal" .

That has been my quest since kindergarten

reddesert · Sep 3, 2024

Sharktooth said:
Nope, the Super 23 has the viewfinder on the right, just like the original model. I just checked this, since it's been a long time since I've actually used mine. The original Mamiya 23 also has the viewfinder on the right. The Super 23 does have a much bigger viewfinder than the original model, however. I would say that the viewfinder in the Super 23 is nicer to look through than the Koni, but the Koni has parallax correcting frame lines.

You are correct, brain short on my part - what I get for posting without looking. I am right-eyed, but think that the eye relief of the Super 23 finder is enough that it's not an issue for me. The Mamiya film backs are very thin; if one has the less-common variety that takes thicker Graflex or RB67 backs, they push your face farther from the finder.

Chuck1 · Sep 3, 2024

The mamiya backs with the built in cable release plunger take away some bulk, the back is a great grip itself.
The special cable release is expensive and hard to find.
There is probably a 3d printed stick on option somewhere.

Vaidotas · Sep 4, 2024

If you happy with 6x7 there are Fujifilm MF rangefinders, more compact than Koni.
Mamiya Press system pros:
6x9 format
Price (comparing with other 6x9 systems)
Outstanding film flatness in late film holders.
Lenses are good performers.
Some lenses can be used on 4x5 (with focussing distance/coverage limitations).

Cons:
No interlocking (I don’t care - build your habits by experience)
Dim rangefinder - cleaning procedure is simple and helps a lot
Left hand grip - I don’t use it
Right side rangefinder
Bulk

I own RB with 65 and 140 KL lenses.
At the moment RB collect dust, I’ over excited with Mamiya Super 23 with 100mm f3.5 and 75mm …

Paul Howell · Sep 4, 2024

I have a pretty complete Universal kit with a second Press body, till as prices have dropped I am tempted to get a Horseman 980. The Super 23 has some movement, while the Horseman had much more movement and prices are not much more than a Universal or Konica 200 in good condition.

Marcelo Paniagua · Sep 4, 2024

Paul Howell said:
I have a pretty complete Universal kit with a second Press body, till as prices have dropped I am tempted to get a Horseman 980. The Super 23 has some movement, while the Horseman had much more movement and prices are not much more than a Universal or Konica 200 in good condition.

Horseman 980 are great cameras but doesn't have the same handling that Mamiya Press. Sure, you can do handheld shoots (have done it) but it is more awkward that Mamiya Press. Also more heavy than Mamiya Press type.

Great camera though. I use mine a lot but almost always on tripod. Rangefinder couple lens offering is similar to Mamiya press lens offering, but you can mount whichever lens you fancy (as long as is 65mm to around 180mm). Solid and fun camera.

blee1996 · Sep 4, 2024

Medium format press camera got obsolete for a reason, and there are much better medium format rangefinders for daily. I personally would go for any Fujica 6x9 (6x7 or 6x8) or Mamiya 6/7.

choiliefan · Sep 4, 2024

I've never used the Mamiya or Koni-Omega but do have a Graflex XL which may be an option for you. The large range/view finder eyepiece is on the left and you can add a lefthand or bottom-mounted handgrip with cable release. It's easy to focus with the right hand while you squeeze-off your shots.
As for the lenses, you have a choice between Zeiss, Rodenstock and a couple others. Back is standard Graflok like your RB67 and takes your RB holders. I use mine frequently with Instax Mini loaded into modified Graphic sheet-film holders.

Vaidotas · Sep 4, 2024

It might fit a category of hearsays, but my point of using Mamiya Press system is related to the character of lens - a strange combo of outstanding sharpness and supressed contrast in opposite to Fujinon’s clinical flawless contrast bearing.
I’m using Fuji lenses on daily basis with MF digital cameras (H4D & GFX) - perfect lenses for assignments, especially 120 Macro or 210mm, but for creative work they
are too harsh to my taste.

Dan Fromm · Sep 4, 2024

choiliefan said:
I've never used the Mamiya or Koni-Omega but do have a Graflex XL which may be an option for you.

cf, many years ago when I was thinking about moving up in format from 35 mm, I looked into all three of the cameras you mentioned. As I saw them, each had a mix of good and poor qualities. The XL's big weakness was the focusing mount, which is somewhat fragile.

Not at all what the OP wants, but I ended up with 2x3 Graphics and haven't looked back. To repeat, although they're very useful, because of the limitations of the coupled rangefinders offered with them they're absolutely not what the OP wants.

Paul Howell · Sep 4, 2024

The U.S Air Force was forced (no pun intended) to buy the XL as Singer the sewing machine company bought Graphic, and although the lens were made in Germany it was considered to U.S made. After only a few years due to poor mechanicals the Air Force was allowed to buy Konica Rapids. I was a base in the mid 70s that still had the XLs and the Rapid, the XL was broken, the lab superintendent had not sent it to surplus, I liked it, but in terms of functionality the Rapid was better.

Marcelo Paniagua · Sep 4, 2024

Graflex XL lenses are great, but honestly, the camera body not so much. As far as I remember (last time I used XL was about 10 years ago) the focusing helicoid have some problems. It was weak and prone to breaking or be pretty tight, not sure which one of them. At the time I sold the body and lenses (4 of them) at a good price. I think I have enjoyed the Mamiya press more that Graflex XL.

Chuck1 · Sep 4, 2024

I like xl stuff, but be prepared to stock up on parts cameras for the helical/mount, they are easy to switch out.they are also easy to adapt to a cheap helicoid and use for zone focusing. An xl with a clear accurate rangefinder and smooth focusing with 3 lens tabs is a pleasure to use
Baby graphics are great(especially if you get one with a good rangefinder)

Dan Fromm · Sep 4, 2024

Chuck1 said:
Baby graphics are great(especially if you get one with a good rangefinder)

True, if the RF is adjusted for the lens mounted. But and however readjusting the RF to use a different lens in the field is so time-consuming that no one seems to be up for it.

Koni-Omega vs. Mamiya Press

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