Koni Omega or a Mamiya Press?

ColdEye · Oct 4, 2011

Now that I am set with my 35mm stuff, I want to try some new things in MF. I know there are many different versions of the Konica/Mamiya, but which would be the better choice? I'd like to shoot 6x7 and bigger, and some instant film too (never tried those). Which one of these can I get a kit for around $250-$300? I know they are quite heavy (around 2kgs if I recall), but that's fine with me. As for what I shoot, I mostly like doing portraits or whatever it is I see when walking down the street, and I don't do much of landscapes.

Klainmeister · Oct 4, 2011

I went through the same dilemma and found that the Mamiya Press fit my needs better because it was more versatile overall. More lenses, and you can shoot 6x6, 6x7, 6x7 on the back, and have ground glass. If you ind a good setup, it'll last a long, long time. The Koni, I have heard, can jam up in the film transport system and cause headaches. I never had any such issues with the Press.

Hope that helps.

ColdEye · Oct 4, 2011

I see. This might sound silly, but how do you shoot with them? They are rangefinders right? Is there a shutter button (like on the top right in 35mm cameras) or do I use a cable release? And what is the GG for, can I shoot sheet film with it? Thank you.

Paul Howell · Oct 4, 2011

I have the Mamyia Universal with 3 lens, 55, 90, and 150mm and the standard 6X9 back. I used the Konica while in the Air Force, a very good camera the lens are excellent. The Mamyia has a better lens selection but I dont think the 150 is a great lens, the wides and 90 normal are very good, but somewhat slow when compaired with a MF SLR. The build on the Press Line of camera is pro quailty. What I dont like is needing to cock the shutter on the Mamyia. On the other hand Mamyia did make a multiback for 6.45 X 6 x6 and 6X7. Mamyia also made a 250 if you need a long lens. My Univeral is quite heavy, at this point I only it use on a Tripod for land scapes, for hand held I use my Kowa 66 SLR or Yashica TLR.

gordrob · Oct 4, 2011

My vote is for the Mamiya. The Universal was the latest model and is what I use. I have 65mm, 100mm, 150mm and 250mm lenses for it. With the 65mm there is a separate viewer you attached to the flash shoe on the top of the camera. The Mamiya has a large bright rangefinder that syncs with the 100, 150 and 250mm lenses. I like to use the 6x9 backs because of size of the negative. The camera should come with a left hand mounted grip with a trigger and cable to trip the shutter. The only drawback is that you have to manually cock the shutter on the lens before each exposure. Check out the large auction site and you will get a good idea of the different models available and the accessories that are available.

Good luck
Gord

MattKing · Oct 4, 2011

I liked the results I got from my Koni-Omegas, but the ergonomics didn't suit me.

Both of your alternatives are big, but they were both designed for (relatively) rapid use - the Koni-Omegas were popular with wedding photographers who had "downsized" from 4x5.

Here is a photo of the kit I sold a year or so ago. The shutter releases are on the front left of the bodies, and fall naturally under your left index finger when you use the grip.

And the "shotgun pump" sound when you advance the film is really impressive .

Ralph Javins · Oct 4, 2011

Good morning, ColdEye;

Before we actually begin here, there are some things you and I could discuss over a cup of coffee sometime about your chosen pseudonym on APUG.

First the disclosure: I bought the cameras that Matt King had. I also have added the Hexanon/Omegon 4.5/180mm lens to the mix for a wider range of lenses to use with the gear, along with a couple of other accessories.

For what I have been doing, the ergonomics of the Koni-Omega Rapid-M fit me fine. However, I am 6 feet 3 inches tall, and I have large hands. For me, it is a fine, workable, heavy, noisy, capable, 6x7 rangefinder camera system. That noise part does require some explanation. The in-the-lens leaf shutter is really quite discrete, but the sound of the push-pull plunger system for advancing the film and cocking the shutter is something that anyone with a military or law enforcement background will probably say is an awful lot like the sound of a 9mm Parabellum or .45 ACP going into battery. In some unusual places, this could provide you with a significant psychological advantage.

SafetyBob · Oct 4, 2011

I have the Mamiya Press Super 23.......the only reason I have this camera vs. the Universal is I got a really, really good deal on it, and of course Clarence Gass in KC did an excellent CLA on it and now it is as close to new as possible.....the rangefinder is wonderfully bright.

I would recommend you go with the Universal unless you want the ability to tilt the film ability of the Super 23. With a universal you find many many more lens and accessories available on the big auction sight......it is not always a difficult find for the Super 23 specific stuff, but specific nice to have stuff can take awhile to show up at times.

Pass on the original Press.......and don't be suprised on any Press you find needing a CLA, unless the previous owner had one done recently.

Bob E.

ColdEye · Oct 4, 2011

thanks Ralph Javins and SafetyBob. So it sounds like cocking a gun? That's something. Ralph, what is the lowest shutter speed that you are comfortable when using it? Do you go below 1/30th while hand holding it?

SafetyBob, thanks for the advice on the models. i looked at the Universal over at ebay and they range from $700-1000. is that the price I should expect to pay for it? That's cool, having the option to use tilt.

Chazzy · Oct 4, 2011

I'm a big fan of the Koni-Omega system. Shutter cocking is automatic, and I have never experienced any jamming. The lenses are excellent and the build quality is very impressive. They were very popular with wedding photographers. The viewfinder is nice and bright too.

mgb74 · Oct 4, 2011

I'd also vote for the later versions of the Super 23 or Universal with the later Seiko shutter. But for fast shooting, hard to beat the K-O. You can quickly advance film with the pull-push plunger (so quickly you can wear it out causing uneven frame spacing) without removing the camera from your eye. The film advance also cocks the shutter.

mikebarger · Oct 4, 2011

I soon will be selling all my Hassy stuff; the Koni's glass (and negative size) are that good. Plus, I can focus the rangefinder much quicker than the Hassy waistlevel or 45 degree prism.

I've never used the Press, can't say good or bad about it.

Mike

michaelbsc · Oct 4, 2011

I love my KO. But then I already own it.

I admit the Mamiya is more versatile.

Konical · Oct 4, 2011

Good Evening,

I have a Super 23 and a Koni Rapid M with various backs, lenses, spacers, etc. I prefer the Koni because it is a bit more compact, has interchangeable magazines, and makes accidental double exposures unlikely. The film advance is great but should be treated somewhat gently. Rough treatment can cause a break in the advance lever if it hits the internal stop too hard on the "pull" stroke. As with most roll film cameras, frame overlap can be a problem as equipment ages, but that can generally be avoided with care. One additional advantage with the Koni is that the backs also fit the Koni-Omegaflex. One negative thing is that prices for used equipment of this type are higher than they were a few years ago (I got my Koni-Omegaflex, in good condition, for only $125 several years back).

Konical

ColdEye · Oct 5, 2011

Thanks for the information. I am really leaning towards the koni omega. Gotta do a bit more reading. Thanks to all!

bushpig · Oct 5, 2011

I have a Koni Omega Rapid M, but I don't use it anymore. Not since getting my RB67. I knew I wanted to shoot 6x7 and I got one for dirt cheap (About $75 after shipping. Extra for the spare back I got later). It's a great camera, and I'm a big fan on Konica, but I'm just more of an SLR guy.

I've been debating on getting rid of my Koni (whom I call Gigantor), but I haven't managed to do so yet.

I've never used a Mamiya Press, but I wouldn't now. I'm just too in love with my RB.

canuhead · Oct 5, 2011

Has a Super 2 but traded in for Universal. Advantages of the Universal were the graflok (?) back system which allows me to use Graflex roll filmholders. I also have a Horseman 6x9 roll holder as well which is much nicer than the Graflex. Not sure about the KO but the Universal can handle Polaroid backs as well if you want to shoot Fuji instant film.

It's a mother of a camera but if the Mamiya's are good enough for Don McCullin, well who am I to argue and you get used to the shutter cocking thing pretty fast

bsdunek · Oct 5, 2011

I have been using a Super 23 for about 35 years. It's big and heavy, but does a super job. I've done weddings, journalism, and now mostly artsy photography. The only drawback, in my mind, is it's a little slow as you have to advance the film and cock the shutter in two seperate movements. I have the retracable 100mm lens (required if you want to use the bellows), the 50mm with viewfinder, and the 250mm telephoto. The 250 is the f8, which does not couple to the rangefinder. When I got it, the f5 was really pricey. The lack of coupling really doesn't bother as it's mostly used at infinity anyway.

Close-up work is easy with the ground glass and cut film holders. I often want just a couple of shots, so the cut film is easy, and doesn't waste a whole roll.

I also have an old Heiland/Honeywell flash and bracket to match. Wonderful flash! Done so many weddings with it and it still works great. Other accessories include several roll film backs, lens shades for all lenses, extension tubes, and of course, filters for everything.

The Universal has the advantage of taking Grafloc backs, which allows some more flexibility, and the use of Polarid holders. Otherwise, to my knowledge, all lenses, etc, fit all the Mamiya Press cameras. For more information, see:

http://members.cox.net/gmhsint/mamiya.html

PaulMD · Oct 5, 2011

One thing to consider: The Koni Omega lenses are much easier to find than the Mamiya Press lenses from everything I've seen and heard. With the Mamiya Press locating any more than the normal lens can be tricky. Obviously if you can find a set then that negates this, but if you start with just the normal lens and want to expand later, consider lens availability.

Paul Howell · Oct 5, 2011

PaulMD said:
One thing to consider: The Koni Omega lenses are much easier to find than the Mamiya Press lenses from everything I've seen and heard. With the Mamiya Press locating any more than the normal lens can be tricky. Obviously if you can find a set then that negates this, but if you start with just the normal lens and want to expand later, consider lens availability.

The Mamyia 150, 65, 90 and 100 seem to be common, the 50, 127, and 250 rather rare, I have only seem one or two 250s over the years and both were expensive. With the exception of the multiback back, backs are easy to find, both the 6X7 and the 6X9.

The Air Force used the KO with the standard 3 lens kit, 90, 60, and 180. I liked the KO 180 better than the Mamyia which I think is just average and is not up to par with the other Mamyia glass. Some feel that the Mamyia black lens are better than the chrome, my 150 is an older chrome.

I have not looked at prices for several years and was quite suprised at how much Mamyia Press is going for.

rexp · Oct 5, 2011

Some time ago I loaned out my Koni in the "MF Loaner Program" for APUGgers to have an opportunity to try this fine camera. Search for "Loaner Program" and you should find the 4 threads I started. I am not using it anymore and don't want to keep shipping it around, thus I have been thinking about parting with it.

So... If you want to try the Koni (this is the Rapid M), boy do I have a deal for you. The camera is yours on three conditions:

1 - You send me a print or two taken with the Koni.
2 - You cannot sell the camera but must give it to someone else someday, in exchange for a print of course.
3 - You pay shipping.

If in the event the camera is damaged or destroyed, you can sell the remains as long as the money you receive is donated to APUG.

You might be more interested in the later model, but this is a way for you to try out the "fit & function" as well as the optics before spending money.

If interested, shoot me an email.

Rex Peterson
rexp<at>lenstracks.com

ColdEye · Oct 5, 2011

rexp, that's very generous of you! Sent you an email.

I really wanted to try using the instant film, but looks like I cannot use it with the Koni. But I saw in a different thread here about polaroid land cameras, so all is good.

brucemuir · Oct 5, 2011

rexp said:
Some time ago I loaned out my Koni in the "MF Loaner Program" for APUGgers to have an opportunity to try this fine camera. Search for "Loaner Program" and you should find the 4 threads I started. I am not using it anymore and don't want to keep shipping it around, thus I have been thinking about parting with it.

So... If you want to try the Koni (this is the Rapid M), boy do I have a deal for you. The camera is yours on three conditions:

1 - You send me a print or two taken with the Koni.
2 - You cannot sell the camera but must give it to someone else someday, in exchange for a print of course.
3 - You pay shipping.

If in the event the camera is damaged or destroyed, you can sell the remains as long as the money you receive is donated to APUG.

You might be more interested in the later model, but this is a way for you to try out the "fit & function" as well as the optics before spending money.

If interested, shoot me an email.

Rex Peterson
rexp<at>lenstracks.com

Rex,
way to step up to the plate!
This type thing is one of the reasons I dig this place so much.

Coldman...
I have the Rapid (no "M", 100 etc) and also a Super 23.
My take is the KO is much better for quick handling but the Mamiya has a bit better rangefinder brightness wise. (rangefinder brightness could of course vary from example to example)

I do have the GG back for the Super 23 but don't use it that much because with a roll back the entire gg unit has to be removed to mount the back and shoot.
This negates the tilt/swing advantage for the mamiya for ME.

If you are shooting candids and street, go with the KO.
Tripod or slower work, the Mamiya line may work better.

I've perused your flickr and am guessing to KO will suit you better.

ColdEye · Oct 5, 2011

Yeah. I prefer the candid stuuf, tho it looks quite big so stealth is out of the question.

brucemuir · Oct 5, 2011

ColdEye said:
Yeah. I prefer the candid stuuf, tho it looks quite big so stealth is out of the question.

ahaa... stealth is out of the question with these beasts but for friends/family that are used to us it isn't too bad.

Koni Omega or a Mamiya Press?

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Koni Omega or a Mamiya Press?

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