Kolari Vision IR Chrome filter

Paul Manuell · Feb 12, 2020

I Googled Kodak Aerochrome cos I love the look of the photos it produces, so thought I'd have a read up on it. One of the hits that came up was in relation to the filter in my title. It claimed to reproduce the Aerochrome look using a digital camera. The article was very interesting and gave side by side comparison photos of shots taken on Aerochrome and the exact same photo taken on a digital camera, and the results were virtually identical. However, there IS a caveat; the filter only works on what they call full spectrum digital cameras, ie., the filter in front of the sensor has to be removed, a service Kolari Vision say they provide.

Now then, this being an analogue group and me only shooting with film, what possible interest could this have for me or anyone else shooting only film? Well, my thought process is that as film cameras already have no filter in front of the 'sensor' (film), then surely their IR Chrome filter should work on film cameras. I emailed Kolari Vision yesterday to ask that very question, but having not heard back from them yet and being an impatient soul, I thought I'd post it on here, see what people's thoughts are. If this filter DOES work on film cameras it would be brilliant.

AgX · Feb 12, 2020

Kodak Aerochrome as other films by other manufacturers were "false-colour" films, meaning that spectral bands of the subject are not replicated as same spectral bands, but as different bands.
This cannot achieved with a normal film and any kind of filter.

By the way, neither the firm Kolari with their filter claim such respectively. You completely misunderstood what they offer.

Paul Manuell · Feb 12, 2020

AgX said:
Kodak Aerochrome as other films by other manufacturers were "false-colour" films, meaning that spectral bands of the subject are not replicated as same spectral bands, but as different bands.
This cannot achieved with a normal film and any kind of filter.

By the way, neither the firm Kolari with their filter claim such respectively. You completely misunderstood what they offer.

Well that was a bit rude and abrupt, your last paragraph. I never claimed Kolari said it would work with film, hence why I asked the question. Looks like YOU misunderstood my post!

AgX · Feb 12, 2020

I did not say Kolari worked with film, but that they did not claim to do so respectively. Namely adding a fiter to normal digital camera and by that turning it into a false-colour IR camera,.

As you already said that I am rude, I do not have to restrict myself; your problem is that you neither read that offer by Kolart not my reply correctly.

AgX · Feb 12, 2020

What that firm seemingly does is converting a digital camera so that it is sensitive to IR, and then disarrange its colour replication, as a false-colour film does. Then adding a filter as one would do with a false colour film.

That is all I shall say on the digital side of this issue, as this is a analog thread.

Paul Manuell · Feb 12, 2020

AgX said:
What that firm seemingly does is converting a digital camera so that it is sensitive to IR, and then disarrange its colour replication, as a false-colour film does. Then adding a filter as one would do with a false colour film.

That is all I shall say on the digital side of this issue, as this is an analog thread .

Good!
Which I addressed in my opening post.

Andrew O'Neill · Feb 12, 2020

It would work on film cameras, only if you are shooting an IR film... and if this filter only allows IR exposure above 820, there are no current IR films to which this filter would work... unless you have some old HIE kicking around. As a side note, I converted an older Canon DSLR to shoot IR. The job was pretty easy. BUT... you have to be very careful once the filters have been removed over the sensor. Dust free environment is a MUST!

Paul Manuell · Feb 12, 2020

Andrew O'Neill said:
It would work on film cameras, only if you are shooting an IR film.. and if this filter only allows IR exposure above 820, there are no current IR films to which this filter would work... unless you have some old HIE kicking around. As a side note, I converted an older Canon DSLR to shoot IR. The job was pretty easy. BUT... you have to be very careful once the filters have been removed over the sensor. Dust free environment is a MUST!

.Thanks for your polite reply.

AgX · Feb 12, 2020

Andrew O'Neill said:
It would work on film cameras, only if you are shooting an IR film... and if this filter only allows IR exposure above 820, there are no current IR films to which this filter would work... unless you have some old HIE kicking around.

It would not work. The filter predominantly presented by that firm is a orange filter. Such filter would not be of any use on HIE.

Such orange filter however is the standard filter for Kodak Ektachrome EIR / Aerochrome IR.

They also offer a 720nm filter, but as the one above, that is nothing special either and would not be of any use to the OP, with his idea of false colour, anyway.

Paul Manuell · Feb 12, 2020

AgX said:
It would not work. The filter predominantly presented by that firm is a orange filter. Such filter would not be of any use on HIE.

Such orange filter however is the standard filter for Kodak Ektachrome EIR / Aerochrome IR.

They also offer a 720nm filter, but as the one above, that is nothing special either and would not be of any use to the OP, with his idea of false colour, anyway.

Oh, you're back. Have you actually looked at the ad for their IR Chrome filter? I'm colour blind but even I can see that it's anything but orange.

Paul Manuell · Feb 12, 2020

I've received a reply now from Kolari Vision. They confirm that it doesn't work with film cameras. However, they did tell me they have 2 rolls of expired Ektachrome EIR for sale, and that they've been kept frozen and in the dark all the time. I don't want them, way beyond my abilities to use such a film, but thought I'd mention it here in case anyone else is interested.

Andrew O'Neill · Feb 12, 2020

AgX said:
It would not work. The filter predominantly presented by that firm is a orange filter. Such filter would not be of any use on HIE.

Such orange filter however is the standard filter for Kodak Ektachrome EIR / Aerochrome IR.

They also offer a 720nm filter, but as the one above, that is nothing special either and would not be of any use to the OP, with his idea of false colour, anyway.

I used Wratten #21 (orange) and it worked quite nicely HIE.

Andrew O'Neill · Feb 12, 2020

Paul Manuell said:
.Thanks for your polite reply.

No worries... and sorry for talking digital! The border between the two does not exist for me anymore. Cheers!

AgX · Feb 12, 2020

Paul Manuell said:
Oh, you're back. Have you actually looked at the ad for their IR Chrome filter? I'm colour blind but even I can see that it's anything but orange.

It says 590nm. That is orange.
But being red it would not change anything.

I do not understand. You inquire about a filter with let's say magical properties. I told you that such filter does not exist. Neither for film, nor for digital capture.

Then you tell me to read that offer, which you yourself have not read properly. As it says repeatedly that they modified that camera. Thus your analogy normal camera > normal film did not fit from the start.

Paul Manuell · Feb 12, 2020

AgX said:
It says 590nm. That is orange.
But being red it would not change anything.

I do not understand. You inquire about a filter with let's say magical properties. I told you that such filter does not exist. Neither for film, nor for digital capture.

Then you tell me to read that offer, which you yourself have not read properly. As it says repeatedly that they modified that camera. Thus your analogy normal camera > normal film did not fit from the start.

Well look at the picture in their bloody ad for it! It's blue ffs, not orange, not red, BLUE!
And yes, I know they modify the camera, I mention it in my opening post. That modification renders the camera 'full spectrum' as they call it, and from what I understood, that entailed removing the filters in front of the sensor. As film cameras have no such filter to begin with, I really hoped the filter would work with them, hence my question. Your attitude in your replies stinks. Why don't you do what you said in one of your replies (but never stuck to it) and not comment on here anymore?

AgX · Feb 12, 2020

Paul Manuell said:
Your attitude in your replies stinks.

What do you prefer?
Someone whose attitude you reject, but tells you the truth (something you asked for)?
Or someone you consider nice, but telling you bullshit?

Paul Manuell · Feb 12, 2020

AgX said:
What do you prefer?
Someone whose attitude you reject, but tells you the truth (something you asked for)?
Or someone you consider nice, but telling you bullshit?

There's telling the truth politely and there's telling the truth abruptly and with a rude attitude. If someone else had started this thread and I knew the answer to the question they were asking, I'd answer it politely, not with the rude last paragraph in your first reply.

reddesert · Feb 16, 2020

Both of you are talking past each other.

From Kolari's website, it is possible to tell that the standard filter for Aerochrome film is/was an orange filter. Kolari sell that. They also sell a blue filter that is intended to give an Aerochrome-like effect when used with a digital sensor that has the IR blocking filter removed.

A digital sensor with the IR blocking filter removed has sensitivity that goes out past the optical into the near-infrared - from 400 to perhaps 900-1000 nm (depends on the sensor). That is why you can do (black-and-white mostly) IR photography with a digital sensor that has the IR-blocking filter removed, using an IR-pass filter like a Wratten 89 or whatever.

Regular film doesn't have IR sensitivity, it is sensitive to optical light from 400-700 nm or so. So if you put the special Kolari filter in front of regular film, you won't get some magical imitation of Aerochrome, because you don't have the IR sensitivity that Aerochrome and the modified digital sensor share.

pentaxuser · Feb 16, 2020

Reddesert in respect of your #18 you made excellent points. The problem on Photrio is that we often end up arguing and then ignoring the other party because we talk past each other. This can result in both parties losing out on the dissemination of useful information which is or should be the raison d'etre of our forum

pentaxuser

NB23 · Feb 16, 2020

Ahhh the Kolari conversions. Beautiful pictures!!

Paul Manuell · Feb 16, 2020

reddesert said:
Both of you are talking past each other.

From Kolari's website, it is possible to tell that the standard filter for Aerochrome film is/was an orange filter. Kolari sell that. They also sell a blue filter that is intended to give an Aerochrome-like effect when used with a digital sensor that has the IR blocking filter removed.

A digital sensor with the IR blocking filter removed has sensitivity that goes out past the optical into the near-infrared - from 400 to perhaps 900-1000 nm (depends on the sensor). That is why you can do (black-and-white mostly) IR photography with a digital sensor that has the IR-blocking filter removed, using an IR-pass filter like a Wratten 89 or whatever.

Regular film doesn't have IR sensitivity, it is sensitive to optical light from 400-700 nm or so. So if you put the special Kolari filter in front of regular film, you won't get some magical imitation of Aerochrome, because you don't have the IR sensitivity that Aerochrome and the modified digital sensor share.

Thank you, makes perfect sense as you explain it.

Paul Manuell · Feb 17, 2020

pentaxuser said:
Reddesert in respect of your #18 you made excellent points. The problem on Photrio is that we often end up arguing and then ignoring the other party because we talk past each other. This can result in both parties losing out on the dissemination of useful information which is or should be the raison d'etre of our forum

pentaxuser

That was definitely my raison d'etre when I started this thread, it was just the tone of his second paragraph that wound me up. Fair enough, I obviously don't have enough intelligence to realise that the filter won't work with film, I just didn't need the snide comment to point it out to me.

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