Kodalith Graphic Arts/Ortho film

[arealitystudios]

Hello All

So I recently aquired a box of 8x10 sheets Kodak Kodalith film. On the box it reads as follows:

Ortho Film, Type 3

I'm of the understanding that this stuff went away long before I discovered the wonders of film photography so I have absolutely no experience with it at all. I've done a fair amount of research before tackling it, but as usual, I'm reading a lot of information that doesn't match up from one person to the next. So once again, I need to ask the experts here!

I'm told it's ok to use this stuff under a red safelight. Is this true? If so, that opens up quite a few possibilities in terms of how I'd like to use it. Would it be safe under a weak orange safe light for a short period of time?

What would you consider to be a ballpark ISO? I've read some people say as low as 1 and others as high as 25. That's quite a range. I was thinking I'd start testing at 5 or 6 but if anyone has a better suggestion I'm all ears.

Also, quite a few individuals suggested developing this stuff in Dektol. I don't use Dektol as my paper developer, but would any paper developer work? Most of my film work is done in Rodinal. What would be the advantage (if any) in processing this stuff in paper developer vs. film developer?

Sorry to ask so many questions. This is probably the one and only box of this stuff I'll ever get so I'd like to make as many educated guesses as possible.

 

[DWThomas]

I think I still have some here (from ca 1975!). I used to use it to produce negatives from line art for making etched nameplates. The stuff normally produces extremely high contrast as one might use to produce printing plates, printed circuit boards, etc. I would say an ISO of 5 or 6 is probably a good place to start, but you're pretty much on your own if you try to produce continuous tone negatives. I once used it to copy a more normal negative to eliminate all midrange tones. For that sort of thing it can be a fun tool. I always used a red safelight; given its slowness, orange might work, but your best bet is just to try it; test a small piece.

DaveT

 

[PHOTOTONE]

I have used Kodak Ortho Type 3, but not as a camera film, rather as a method of making masks for dropping out backgrounds on negatives, and for this I used Ortho/Litho type of developer. You must use a red safelight. I have also used this film, under the enlarger to make b/w transparencies from b/w negatives. For this, I have developed in Dektol with good continuous tone results. I can't recommend an ISO, as I always did my work with test strips to determine exposure. Basically this is a graphic arts type of film designed for giving very high contrast black and white image without middle tones, and works this way when developed in the recommended developers. To get continuous tones, you use a softer-working developer. Dektol fits the bill, if you want to make nice looking continuous tone b/w transparencies from your average b/w negatives. You could also use other "film" type developers if you wish, such as D 76...again trial and error to determine correct times and exposures.

 

[nworth]

Kodalith Ortho Type 3 was an extremely high contrast film used to produce halftone and line negatives in the graphic arts industry. It was also used to produce opaque masks for various special effects in ordinary photography. In a low contrast developer it will produce contrasty but still continuous tone images with extremely fine grain. These are usually not very useful, but they may be interesting for some work. In a very low contrast developer, you may be able to produce negatives suitable for alternative processes like platinum or cyanotype. With normal development in a lithographic developer, you get just black and white, with no middle tones. In an active developer like Dektol, you get almost no middle tones, with everything pretty well pushed to one extreme or the other. Film speed is similar to a fast enlarging paper - somewhere around 3. The recommended safelight is a Wratten No. 1, medium red. The film is sensitive to blue and green light, and even a little sensitive to red, so amber or light red safelights are out.

I used some of this film (I even have some left), and it's kind of fun. Some subject really lend themselves to the extreme contrast prints you can make. Experiment with different kinds of subjects and different development methods.

 

[epatsellis]

Well, I'm sure Jim Galli will jump in soon, in the meantime, search here for Arista APHS (another brand/type of lith film) and you'll find tons of reccommendations.


erie

 

[jfish]

You can expose a negative onto it and develop in paper developer and get a nice B&W positive transparency.

 

[ricksplace]

I have shot quite a bit of this stuff in 4X5 and 2-1/4 X 3-1/4 in speed graphics. Shoot it at iso 5, and develop it in rodinal at 1+150 for about 7-8 minutes. Use a RED safelight and watch it develop. The very dilute rodinal controls the contrast well. See the image on the last page of my gallery called "roadside table" for an example.

 

[Stephen Frizza]

I remember a pro lab i worked in used it as a material to sandwich company logos into images etc...

 

[2F/2F]

"I'm told it's ok to use this stuff under a red safelight. Is this true? If so, that opens up quite a few possibilities in terms of how I'd like to use it. Would it be safe under a weak orange safe light for a short period of time?"

Yes, it is true. I would not use orange, and if you plan on using continuous-tone developers, I would even leave the red light off or cover the developer tray except for periodic inspection.

"What would you consider to be a ballpark ISO? I've read some people say as low as 1 and others as high as 25. That's quite a range. I was thinking I'd start testing at 5 or 6 but if anyone has a better suggestion I'm all ears."

EI 6-12 is a ballpark starting point in my experience with in-camera use. It will depend on many factors, such as developer,etc., but most importantly, how you actually measure the speed. Do you measure it by finding a usable shadow placement? Do you measure it by looking at the slope of a certain part of the film's s-curve? Do you measure it off of middle grey? Off of the highlights? Is "speed" just whatever EI gives you a fairly decent printable neg? (That's the one I use! ) In short, what speed it is really depends on what you mean by "speed".

"Also, quite a few individuals suggested developing this stuff in Dektol. I don't use Dektol as my paper developer, but would any paper developer work? Most of my film work is done in Rodinal. What would be the advantage (if any) in processing this stuff in paper developer vs. film developer?"

It will develop in practically any developer. Dektol, while not as contrasty as the various halftone developers, is still mighty contrasty. In my experience, if you really want a nice range of continuous tone using a commonly available developer, it is best to treat this just like a piece of standard film. This means using a *film* developer *one shot*, and almost certainly at a notably higher dilution than you would use for regular film. Before I discovered David Soemarko's remarkable LC-1 homebrew formula, I used HC-110 (and then Ilford HC once I switched) at a 1:79 dilution, as recommended by Ilford on the data sheet for HC. I would often tweak the dilution a bit with a little more syrup or a little more water as needed to change contrast, but even then it was a bit rough.

I highly recommend purchasing the Christopher James alt. processes book and reading the bits on crafting the ideal lithos for your process. Also, IMO, there is no better option for continuous-tone development than the LC-1 formula I previously mentioned. It is explained starting on page 45, I believe.

"Sorry to ask so many questions. This is probably the one and only box of this stuff I'll ever get so I'd like to make as many educated guesses as possible."

Once you burn through it, you will probably realize its many uses, and want more. When (if?) that happens, APHS from Freestyle is a decent replacement...and cheap.

BTW, litho film keeps practically forever, so you are likely very safe buying old boxes.

 

[arealitystudios]

Thank you everyone for all the advice. It helps a great deal. Yet again you've proven why this is one of the best photo communities on the net.

Once I finish off this box of Kodalith, I'll have to check out the APHS stuff. I remember seeing it in their catalogue but I guess I never connected the dots as to what it really was. Good to know I'll have options beyond the life of this 100 sheet box.

Looks like I have some experimenting to do this weekend!

 

[epatsellis]

Check out Ultrafineonline.com as well, they have .007 lith films, the same thickness as conventional film.

 

[Mike Wilde]

hunt down siegel - post factory

issue #1 - available for download free at www.alternativephotography.com will give you a great insight at practical ways of testing all sorts of way out there films and developers with a simple step wedge, and not leave you lost in a sea of math or graphs.

Pages 33-41 gave me great insights. Now I contact a step wedge on old print paper to see what the contrast range is, particularly if you need to add bromide etc to suppress fog. Then I know what I need to develop a film to, or if the film is already developed, how dense an unsharp mask is needed to fit the image onto the paper in question.

It is also how I figured out how to put a big lot of ortho lith that I was given (some 100 sheets are 12x19) into service as in camera film, unsharp mask material, and large format neg and contacting derivations material.

 

[2F/2F]

Thank you everyone for all the advice. It helps a great deal. Yet again you've proven why this is one of the best photo communities on the net.

Once I finish off this box of Kodalith, I'll have to check out the APHS stuff. I remember seeing it in their catalogue but I guess I never connected the dots as to what it really was. Good to know I'll have options beyond the life of this 100 sheet box.

Looks like I have some experimenting to do this weekend!

APHS is dirt cheap. I love it for this. I think it is about 12 or 13 bucks for a box of 50 sheets 4x5. So don't feel too bad about experimenting away!

Another thing to know is that APHS is available not only in 4x5, but in 3.9 by 4.9. The latter is the one you want if you will be loading it into 4x5 film holders.