I just dug mine up (sent on 12/31) and did the same. We'll see what I get this time.
Well, still no response from whoever passes as Kodak this year. I can understand them being a little swamped after having not one, but three bad batches of Xtol over the course of a year -- but it's an easy task for an IT geek to set up an auto-reply to at least let the inquirer know their message has been received and, due to volume, may be subject to delayed response.
Is the Great Yellow Father in terminal care? He is a hundred and thirty or so...
Hey Donald, sorry to hear you're not getting any satisfaction from Big K. I'm equally disappointed to discover a third Xtol recall in a very short timespan, and in response, I have decided I'm just going to mix my own developers. Two of my old standby options are D-76 and Divided D-23 (which I have recently rediscovered, and now I remember why I liked it so much) both of which are ridiculously easy to assemble. Most seasoned darkroom folks will tell you that the differences between Xtol and D-76 (in the hands of a knowledgeable technician) are minimal. So for me, switching back to home made D-76 & D-23 is an easy choice. Artcraft Chemicals has everything you need, and the ultimate cost-per-serving will be half (or less) what you pay Kodak for the packaged version.
Hence my search thread, recently, for alternative self-replenishing developers (ideally ones I can mix myself). Mytol is a bad choice, because the iron sequestrant Kodak uses in Xtol isn't easy to get, and it's expensive in amateur quantities. The Champion product apparently isn't available in the USA -- but the existence of that product (which, as far as I've been able to determine, doesn't depend on ascorbate) suggests there may be a mix-my-own self-replenishing (hence immortal) developer formula out there, if I can find it.
Serg,I think MyTol is a good choice. Probably with some precautions.
As I understand your idea - Mytol is very fragile for iron so that tap water might kill it?
I had the same precaution from the chemist when was thinking what developer to use as a base in the lab. Copper, as I remember was even more deadly for it.
As I understand it, the issue (even with RO/DI water) is that impurities in the chemicals you use to mix Mytol are what kills it. Sodium sulfite very commonly includes some iron impurities (from my understanding), and borax might include either iron or copper, or both -- in both cases, introduced by the production process or, in borax, present in the naturally occurring form.
If you're able to economically source high purity reagent grade chemicals, you might not have this problem, but most home users (like me) aren't willing to pay five or ten times as much for sodium sulfite (doing so removes most of the economy of replenishment) -- if we can even buy that grade in less than barrel quantities requiring a second mortgage.
I had been thinking that there ought to be a PQ developer otherwise equivalent to Xtol, and without ascorbate, it would be immune to iron and copper in the water or source and is self-replenishing, but it might be that hydroquinone oxidation products would build up and lead to increasing contrast over time. The alternative would be to find an economically sensible and easily available iron and copper sequestrant to add to Mytol.
Why?No replies from Kodak yet. Three emails sent.
My xtol seller refunded the chemicals after explaining the situation! So for my part this is done. I'm not going to use Kodak Xtol anymore.
No replies from Kodak yet. Three emails sent.
My xtol seller refunded the chemicals after explaining the situation! So for my part this is done. I'm not going to use Kodak Xtol anymore.
What did your seller say about the situation?
I'm going to be pilloried for this, but here it goes ...
For the life of me I cannot figure out why Sino Promise will continue with B&W chemicals. For them it is a sliver of a sliver of the Kodak B&W film ecosystem. EK makes the film, sells it to KA, who hopefully makes a pound or two for their troubles. Then in some bizarre arrangement Sino Promise will make (and market) maybe a dozen B&W products related to B&W film development. Couple this with the fact that the three headed psuedo Kodak arrangement doesn't even go beyond film the way Ilford, Adox, and Foma, do. There is no B&W paper and chemicals business.
What Sino Promise wants to (if I understand it correctly), is to grow their dominance in the silver based color printing industry. So ... color RA-4 paper and chemicals will be readily available. As a hint: look to the fact that KA/Sino Promise hasn't cut rolls into sheets for quite some time.
What about C-41? Here again, I can't see Sino Promise getting too excited about supporting a sliver of a sliver of the color film consumer market. There are some commercial labs who need to buy C-41 chemistry, but is it enough to for Sino Promise to remain engaged in this market?
In short, I personally won't be hitching my wagon to Sino Promise for long term support of B&W chemistry (and perhaps C-41 chemistry). It just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. Your outlook might be vastly different.
It was a package deal of the chem division of KA and the color paper of KA. Sino was already making the paper, I believe. Now they have control over RA-4 chem and the paper to go with it. It appears they also market the machines, too. There is a big market for c-print. A much smaller market for B&W chems. Also, what do they do to market B&W film chemistry? Here buy these chems to support the film sold by a different company. Just doesn't make sense to me.wyofilm, can I ask you for the reasons why you think Sinopromise bothered to get involved then?
Thanks
pentaxuser
Makes sense if you take on two things in negotiation, but only want to keep one thing down the road.Why would a company invest in a product just to bring it down and destroy it? It does not make sense.
I'm going to be pilloried for this, but here it goes ...
For the life of me I cannot figure out why Sino Promise will continue with B&W chemicals. For them it is a sliver of a sliver of the Kodak B&W film ecosystem. EK makes the film, sells it to KA, who hopefully makes a pound or two for their troubles. Then in some bizarre arrangement Sino Promise will make (and market) maybe a dozen B&W products related to B&W film development. Couple this with the fact that the three headed psuedo Kodak arrangement doesn't even go beyond film the way Ilford, Adox, and Foma, do. There is no B&W paper and chemicals business.
What Sino Promise wants to (if I understand it correctly), is to grow their dominance in the silver based color printing industry. So ... color RA-4 paper and chemicals will be readily available. As a hint: look to the fact that KA/Sino Promise hasn't cut rolls into sheets for quite some time.
What about C-41? Here again, I can't see Sino Promise getting too excited about supporting a sliver of a sliver of the color film consumer market. There are some commercial labs who need to buy C-41 chemistry, but is it enough to for Sino Promise to remain engaged in this market?
In short, I personally won't be hitching my wagon to Sino Promise for long term support of B&W chemistry (and perhaps C-41 chemistry). It just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. Your outlook might be vastly different.
Very frustrating I know. That's why I'm thinking of switching all my B/W film and chemisty between Ilford and FOMA. Kodak has done crazy things like this for years. It never made sense to me (business or otherwise) why they discontinued B/W paper manufacturing but continued to produce the chemistry. I remember years ago (1980s) they invented the EKTAFLEX color printing system. I purchased the system shortly after it was introduced. The prints were more expensive to produce than traditional "C" prints, but you made it up in the time saved to produce a commercially accepted print. It only required a single solution. It was a transfer system similiar to way you would peel a professional 4x5 Polaroid, only larger (8x10). I think that lasted about 2 years before Kodak decided not to support the system anymore. They stopped producing the chemical, film and paper used as the transfer medium. I was left with a worthless large plastic processor with rollers. I guess I could have used the roller part to wring out wet T-shirts!I'm going to be pilloried for this, but here it goes ...
For the life of me I cannot figure out why Sino Promise will continue with B&W chemicals. For them it is a sliver of a sliver of the Kodak B&W film ecosystem. EK makes the film, sells it to KA, who hopefully makes a pound or two for their troubles. Then in some bizarre arrangement Sino Promise will make (and market) maybe a dozen B&W products related to B&W film development. Couple this with the fact that the three headed psuedo Kodak arrangement doesn't even go beyond film the way Ilford, Adox, and Foma, do. There is no B&W paper and chemicals business.
What Sino Promise wants to (if I understand it correctly), is to grow their dominance in the silver based color printing industry. So ... color RA-4 paper and chemicals will be readily available. As a hint: look to the fact that KA/Sino Promise hasn't cut rolls into sheets for quite some time.
What about C-41? Here again, I can't see Sino Promise getting too excited about supporting a sliver of a sliver of the color film consumer market. There are some commercial labs who need to buy C-41 chemistry, but is it enough to for Sino Promise to remain engaged in this market?
In short, I personally won't be hitching my wagon to Sino Promise for long term support of B&W chemistry (and perhaps C-41 chemistry). It just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. Your outlook might be vastly different.
Very frustrating I know. That's why I'm thinking of switching all my B/W film and chemisty between Ilford and FOMA. Kodak has done crazy things like this for years. It never made sense to me (business or otherwise) why they discontinued B/W paper manufacturing but continued to produce the chemistry.
To strip away sectors of a compete commercial ecosystem makes it harder in the future to market your remaining products. For example, when eliminating paper, Kodak basically says,"Yes, use our films, but use Ilford (or whatever brand you like) paper. BUT, when you are looking at their catalog of products please, please, pretty please don't try one of their films." In the great upheaval, everyone was loosing money, I believe.Kodak discontinued black & white papers because they were loosing money. It was a business decision. It was not aimed at anyone in particular, despite the anti-Kodak crowds claims, it was not personal.
I hedged my argument on C41. However, the part that either I am missing or that you are is that there is no Kodak. Kodak is EK, KA, and Sino (?). What does Sino care about EK, when they have the entire/most of c-print market, and NONE of the film market.I doubt that they would leave C-41 chemistry to just Fuji, especially given that it's Kodak's invention. Besides, they know about how much chemistry they have to produce based on how much c-41 film is made, as that needs to be processed after all.
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